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Thread: VE tuning questions/problems

  1. #81
    bump...anyone on the WOT disable?
    2002 LS1 Camaro - (12.9@104mph) 3.73 gears/3600 stall/corsa exhaust/tuned/Ford 8.8 rear end
    1996 3800 camaro-- (13.4@100mph) Heads/Cam/Geared/Stalled/Ford 8.8 rear end
    2008 Chevy Colorado - Daily Driver / Off-Road
    Camarov6.com | Project Cars | 5th Gen Camaro Specs | How-to Guides

  2. #82
    "WOT disable" will turn off AE if it's enabled.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by jeff View Post
    "WOT disable" will turn off AE if it's enabled.
    should I be doing this if I am only running VE?
    2002 LS1 Camaro - (12.9@104mph) 3.73 gears/3600 stall/corsa exhaust/tuned/Ford 8.8 rear end
    1996 3800 camaro-- (13.4@100mph) Heads/Cam/Geared/Stalled/Ford 8.8 rear end
    2008 Chevy Colorado - Daily Driver / Off-Road
    Camarov6.com | Project Cars | 5th Gen Camaro Specs | How-to Guides

  4. #84
    I'll give you my take on it but maybe someone with more V6 experience knows better.

    AE modifies the fuel under certain conditions.

    "Filtered TPS" will used smoothed TPS data instead of the RAW or actual TPS values to determine when to active AE.

    "WOT Disable", if enabled, will not activate AE when TPS is 100%

    Seams to me the other options and tables are modifiers or enable/disablers but there is no base table that HPtuners can see to actually change how much fuel AE adds.

    With that reasoning, and because the V8 tunes don't even have AE, I would suggest trying to disable AE so it never activates and you only tune WOT with the PE table. To disable AE, try maxing out the "Enable TPS Delta" table and set Re-enable TPS to 100%. You have the VE good in area's not at WOT, so why not set the VE to around 100% and put the PE table to what ever it needs to be to get the AFR you want measured by the wide-band.

    Before, someone jumps in this thread and says "don't rape the PE table", read through this tread and look at the logs and tune, then provide a reason not to tune by the PE, and hopefully suggest a workaround, too.

    Just trying to offer a suggestion...
    Last edited by jeff; 03-25-2010 at 07:40 PM. Reason: grammer

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by jeff View Post
    I'll give you my take on it but maybe someone with more V6 experience knows better.

    AE modifies the fuel under certain conditions.

    "Filtered TPS" will used smoothed TPS data instead of the RAW or actual TPS values to determine when to active AE.

    "WOT Disable", if enabled, will not activate AE when TPS is 100%

    Seams to me the other options and tables are modifiers or enable/disablers but there is no base table that HPtuners can see to actually change how much fuel AE adds.

    With that reasoning, and because the V8 tunes don't even have AE, I would suggest trying to disable AE so it never activates and you only tune WOT with the PE table. To disable AE, try maxing out the "Enable TPS Delta" table and set Re-enable TPS to 100%. You have the VE good in area's not at WOT, so why not set the VE to around 100% and put the PE table to what ever it needs to be to get the AFR you want measured by the wide-band.

    Before, someone jumps in this thread and says "don't rape the PE table", read through this tread and look at the logs and tune, then provide a reason not to tune by the PE, and hopefully suggest a workaround, too.

    Just trying to offer a suggestion...
    I appreciate the help.

    You lost me on that? set which part of the VE to 100% the WOT cell area? only thing that concerns me is going extremely lean then under WOT conditions?

    The reason I have gotten my tune to work this far is through all PE tuning lol. I noticed that the stoich number is actually the commanded afr when not in PE mode...so I set my stoich to what I want my afr to be at when I cruise around town and on the highway, and then as soon as I hit 25% throttle PE gets enabled and I scale my afr through the PE tables. I figure at around 25% throttle I should add a little more fuel then running around 14.4 ish...

    Im going to try the disable thing tommorrow, but elaborate a little more for me which part of the ve you think I should bring to 100%.

    would be nice if the fix is just a push of a button like that...
    2002 LS1 Camaro - (12.9@104mph) 3.73 gears/3600 stall/corsa exhaust/tuned/Ford 8.8 rear end
    1996 3800 camaro-- (13.4@100mph) Heads/Cam/Geared/Stalled/Ford 8.8 rear end
    2008 Chevy Colorado - Daily Driver / Off-Road
    Camarov6.com | Project Cars | 5th Gen Camaro Specs | How-to Guides

  6. #86
    Again, I'm not speaking from V6 experience, just brainstorming ideas...

    I meant the WOT area of the VE table but my point was to compensate for that by adjusting the PE.
    Looking a the PE it's not EQ ratio vs. RPM like the V8 tunes, but you have have it at 13.8 AFR in the ECT table why not 12.8 or even a lot richer to compensate for the VE? Your lean at WOT maybe because your PE is commanding 13.8. Try something really rich like 10.8 for the PE and log to see what effect that has. You have the wideband in the car so you can let off if it reads too lean (above ~13.5 at WOT). And adjust the PE so that you get 12.8 on the wideband. What AFR are to targeting at WOT?


    Not a push of a button, but just throwing the idea out there to try and for others to think about too.
    Last edited by jeff; 03-26-2010 at 12:31 PM.

  7. #87
    Just noticed the PE Add vs. RPM that modifies the base AFR. at 4800 to 6400 it's -1.800 so total commanded AFR in PE is 13.8 + -1.8 = 12.0
    Be aware of that table 'cause it will have a major effect on PE. Is that what you were using to adjust the PE?

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by jeff View Post
    Just noticed the PE Add vs. RPM that modifies the base AFR. at 4800 to 6400 it's -1.800 so total commanded AFR in PE is 13.8 + -1.8 = 12.0
    Be aware of that table 'cause it will have a major effect on PE. Is that what you were using to adjust the PE?
    thats the table yes...so basically (if I remember correctly without looking at the tune) it should go something like...below 25% throttle commands 14.4, 25% throttle it commands 13.8 afr as long as I am below 3600 rpm... then 4000 is 13.5, 4200 is 13.3 and then I think from 4600 and above it is 12.0 or something to that effect.

    I am commanding 12.0 right now (which is rich) but I want it like that until I get this all dialed in properly and as a safety.

    why not 12.8 or even a lot richer to compensate for the VE? Your lean at WOT maybe because your PE is commanding 13.8. Try something really rich like 10.8 for the PE and log to see what effect that has. You have the wideband in the car so you can let off if it reads too lean (above ~13.5 at WOT).
    as far as this goes, Im not sure if I have a 1-2 2-3 gear pull in the scans I gave, but you will notice that those rpm will be leaner in the 1-2 gear pull, and then all of a sudden be a little richer in the 2-3 pull (without letting off the throttle) which means Im always going to be off somewhere lol.

    Plus, I don't exactly like the idea of having to command 10.0 afr just to get a 12.0 afr from the car. I mean if I have to command 10.0 now, whats going to happen as I build the car further...am I going to need to command 4.0 just to compensate and get a 12.0 afr lol.

    I mean I will do this^ if I have to, but I am trying to avoid it as much as possible...
    2002 LS1 Camaro - (12.9@104mph) 3.73 gears/3600 stall/corsa exhaust/tuned/Ford 8.8 rear end
    1996 3800 camaro-- (13.4@100mph) Heads/Cam/Geared/Stalled/Ford 8.8 rear end
    2008 Chevy Colorado - Daily Driver / Off-Road
    Camarov6.com | Project Cars | 5th Gen Camaro Specs | How-to Guides

  9. #89
    so you guys aren't gunna believe this...I went out tuning tonight and I hit that little tab that says "WOT disable" and put it to "enable"

    well...it looks like it was working at the beginning...I went from being 9% short of fuel at WOT, to being 7% then 6%...then it stayed at 6%...I can live with that.

    Problem... My part throttle numbers are wayyyyy rich...doesnt matter what I put in the VE table, they will stay at 10-12 afr when light on the throttle...

    I thought maybe the whole ve table is now taking data from itself, since this whole thing is based on cylinder fill.

    Soooo...I went back and took one of my stock ve tables (or very close to stock) and loaded it into the tune, then I went back over all the VE tables I enriched, and set them all back to factory specs.

    logged some more same problem...WOT went to a consistent 10-12% off of the commanded afr, but I was still hitting high 11's in the pulls. Again, didnt matter how much I messed with the VE table, part throttle was wayyyyy too rich...11-12 afr...

    this tells me that the "WOT disable" button...is clearly not that simple...anyone want to take a stab as to whats going on?

    heres some logs for the night...

    Attachment 22823

    Attachment 22824

    Attachment 22825

    ^ those logs are from my original tune posted on here, except the WOT disable button is enabled...


    Attachment 22826

    Attachment 22827

    ^ those two logs are from when I put the stockish VE table back in the car and cut out the Acceleration enrichment I had previously added...

    Anyone wanna take a stab at what just happened?

    Thanks guys.
    Last edited by LETZRIDE; 03-31-2010 at 02:34 AM.
    2002 LS1 Camaro - (12.9@104mph) 3.73 gears/3600 stall/corsa exhaust/tuned/Ford 8.8 rear end
    1996 3800 camaro-- (13.4@100mph) Heads/Cam/Geared/Stalled/Ford 8.8 rear end
    2008 Chevy Colorado - Daily Driver / Off-Road
    Camarov6.com | Project Cars | 5th Gen Camaro Specs | How-to Guides