Stock plugs on LNF+high boost+meth. picslol

[BLAZIN07SS]

^^^^ flawless victory

[dont_blink]

You realize in that thread it confirms 100% of what I was saying right? So thank you for the confirmation. No shit, higher EGTs will occur for the same given RPM with lowered timing because the spark is hitting closer to the valve event. But at WOT with a heavier fuel mixture and advanced timing, the more you load the cylinder up with charge and the longer it gets to burn (advancing timing) the hotter the gas coming out of that port. Period. Richen that mixture up while keeping the timing the same and you will see a decrease in EGT, solely from the unburnt fuel cooling the gas.

Originally Posted by Trick Tuners
Reduced cylinder pressures

Usually detonation will cause a reduction in EGTs because the extra heat is more concentrated in the combustion chamber, but EGTs should rise as you increase timing but before the knock limit.

Damn there are so many sack riders on these forums these days that most people don't even care right from wrong, just as long as their guy is talking.

And yet again, you still have yet to show me your logs where increasing timing during WOT pulls will lower EGTs. All you can do is pull up some compilation of threads that simply proves what I was saying. I tune new set ups with an EGT. If it's a car with a set up that I have never tuned before that I am expecting high boost out of regular gasoline or C16 or gas+meth or gas+meth/water or E85 or E85+meth or N20, I will tap in an EGT gauge and log the temps to see the effect on the timing I'm adding vs the power it adds on the dyno. This isn't something you're going to "post" your way out of. Those of you that have agreed that higher EGTs are caused by less advance under power, have all shot your tuning credibility to hell. Not that some of you had any to begin with.

[Witt]

You realize in that thread it confirms 100% of what I was saying right?

It absolutely does not. Now you are changing your tune and adding in AFR changes and their effect on EGTs. I originally quoted your post that stated meth will cool the burn but result in higher combustion chamber temperature and higher EGT. The two graphs I provided show that the change in timing will cause higher combustion temperature and a longer burn but lower EGTs. I provided proof which showed the increase in timing via an engine sim will result in lower EGT, which is what you claimed wouldn't happen in the post I quoted. If you have some type of proof otherwise, feel free to post it up.

Don't backpedal now.

In case you forgot, here's the original quote in which I stated you are flat wrong:

For the same given set up, yes, methanol will cool the intake charge, the burn, and thus the EGTs. BUT, one of the great benefits of meth is knock supression, allowing more timing. What happens when you add more timing? A longer burn. The longer the burn, the hotter the cylinder charge temps get. Therefor, an increase in EGT happens.

I have a feeling you have so many fans on this forum because of your reputation of posting bad info. A previous poster asking about your bunk claims on Ecotec crank wheels confirms that.

Edit: Thanks for the new sig as well.

[Terminator2]

It absolutely does not. Now you are changing your tune and adding in AFR changes and their effect on EGTs. I originally quoted your post that stated meth will cool the burn but result in higher combustion chamber temperature and higher EGT. The two graphs I provided show that the change in timing will cause higher combustion temperature and a longer burn but lower EGTs. I provided proof which showed the increase in timing via an engine sim will result in lower EGT, which is what you claimed wouldn't happen in the post I quoted. If you have some type of proof otherwise, feel free to post it up.

Don't backpedal now.

In case you forgot, here's the original quote in which I stated you are flat wrong:


I have a feeling you have so many fans on this forum because of your reputation of posting bad info. A previous poster asking about your bunk claims on Ecotec crank wheels confirms that.

The cylinder pressure and temperature increases but because the burn is initiated sooner it has more time to cool before the exhaust valve opens. Makes sense to me now thanks. I too was confused by the cylinder temperature vs exhaust gas temperature. I did not think in terms of when the exhaust valve was opening in relation to the combustion event. That is why running less midrange timing helps us spool up the turbo faster. Hotter EGTs do more work on the exhaust wheel.

[Witt]

The cylinder pressure and temperature increases but because the burn is initiated sooner it has more time to cool before the exhaust valve opens. Makes sense to me now thanks. I too was confused by the cylinder temperature vs exhaust gas temperature. I did not think in terms of when the exhaust valve was opening in relation to the combustion event. That is why running less midrange timing helps us spool up the turbo faster. Hotter EGTs do more work on the exhaust wheel.

Correct. This is exactly how an anti-lag feature works.

[dont_blink]

It absolutely does not. Now you are changing your tune and adding in AFR changes and their effect on EGTs. I originally quoted your post that stated meth will cool the burn but result in higher combustion chamber temperature and higher EGT. The two graphs I provided show that the change in timing will cause higher combustion temperature and a longer burn but lower EGTs. I provided proof which showed the increase in timing via an engine sim will result in lower EGT, which is what you claimed wouldn't happen in the post I quoted. If you have some type of proof otherwise, feel free to post it up.

I am not changing anything. I also did not say meth will cool the burn and result in higher combustion temps and higher EGTs as timing is increased. I said for the same given timing meth will cool the entire charge/burn/EGT, however, the use of meth allows more timing, thus resulting in higher EGTs. Also, for the same given AFR under power, more timing increases EGTs. Period. In that thread someone was quoted verbatim saying exactly what I said. Yet you say it doesn't support my thoughts. Lay off the drugs and learn to read. I'll quote it again in case you missed it:

Originally Posted by Trick Tuners
Reduced cylinder pressures

Usually detonation will cause a reduction in EGTs because the extra heat is more concentrated in the combustion chamber, but EGTs should rise as you increase timing but before the knock limit.

Why would you use thoughts that confirm mine to try and back your own? It's a contradiction.

As far as ALS, timing is reduced to put more raw, unburnt fuel through the exhaust ports (a less burned mixture) at which point the excess fuel explodes in the obnoxiously hot manifold, helping to spool the turbo. This is why a manifold will glow red hot almost instantly under ALS. Also the reason a tubular manifold will not last as long as a cast one on an ALS car. The use of ALS shows an increase in EGTs yes, but not because timing is reduced. It is simply because there is an ignition event in the presence of the pyrometer, not in the cylinder.

[Witt]

Why would you use thoughts that confirm mine to try and back your own? It's a contradiction.

Perhaps you should read the entire thread quoted from modular fords instead of picking one quote that was an obvious mistype that should have said "AFR" instead of "timing". Let me show you some quotes from the very same thread from the very same poster, the first quote was in the same post you keep quoting and goes against everything you are arguing:

Adding octane to increase the timing beyond the lower octane knock limit will reduce EGTs as well.

Well, thats strange. The very same post which you keep quoting to me states exactly what I have been saying. Lets see what else the same poster states....

I've seen EGTs go up with reduced timing. With low timing and rich mixtures the EGTs are VERY high (like 1800F) on my low boosted 2V measured at the start of the midpipe. This is my understanding on EGTs.

Now lets read some more of that thread:

Good to have experimental confirmation! I will add that even if all the fuel is burned prior to the exhaust-valve opening event, EGTs will still be higher with less spark. So again, the question is: if EGTs are higher, then what is the mechanism for why the octane requirement is reduced with less spark?

This is correct. Less timing causes higher EGTs. The reason is some of the mixture can still be burning as it exits the exhaust valve.

On cammed cars, lowering spark at idle helps to stabilize idling. Otherwise there is no real reason to have really low spark.

Winner! Reduction in peak cylinder pressure and temperature. See modeling results below. Engine 1 has less spark advance.

As one can see, at the end of the power stroke, indeed the gas temp is greater on the engine with less timing advance, which is simply because ignition was delayed.

Anything to say about all of that?

Its a shame you refuse to look at any type of simple engine sim software, something pretty much anyone can have access to. It would save both of us a lot of typing. Although I have a feeling your results would come out exactly like the screenshots I posted above which were directly from the thread you seem to think is detrimental to my argument.

I would love to hear your reasoning on why the two screenshots I posted show an increase in timing advance, higher combustion chamber temps on the power stroke but lower EGTs.