When are we going to get a Handheld????

[minytrker]

autocals have 8 license slots

then its a paper weight to me.

[DSteck]

If the handheld doesn't have a 5v input, it'd be disappointing IMO.

[vortec]

We are waiting for this release.Can't wait.
Autocal works but I want HPT

[Bill@HPTuners]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I'm positive there are no analog input provisions on the interface and this isn't a master slave setup where you'll be able to purchase one interface to send back & forth to different customers as that is, was, won't be its intent.

Its main intent is in a tunershop environment where a customer wants a handheld with his stock & multiple additional tunes on the interface so when he leaves the shop he can flash back to stock or change to a nitrous tune or higher boost tune, etc. whenever he wants rather than going back to the shop at a later time.

It can also be used for remote tuning but there will be a buy in amount ie you cannot just purchase one.

-Bill

[minytrker]

Thanks for the response. It looks like in my own personal case the HPT hand held isn't going to help me out anymore than autocal.
I am still looking forward to it coming out though and will most likely atleast try it.

[0352goat]

Bill, do you have an idea as to what the min. quantity will be?

[LSxpwrdZ]

Are these going to be like the current cables with licensing? It will only work on one vehicle once it's licensed, or if the customer sells the car but keeps the handheld can he bring it back and have it re-programmed for a different car?

[Frost]

The 3 biggest things that caught alot of people off guard

1. having to spend $1500 just to get into it
2. no external in put for wide band
3. no option to add more license for one

I understand the concept of selling them with limted license, it forces me to keep buying them but it would be nice to be able to buy one even at different price where you could keep buying and adding license to it or even the possibilty of buying unlimited license. Alot of times the extra $300 for an autocal isnt worth it to one of my customers but if I had an option to just charge $100 more for the vin license and a deposit where I could mail them one and get it back and re-use it it would make the sale. Alot like some shops do with the ls2 edit cables (atleast I think thats what they are). I know I wasnt the only who thought auto cal was going to be more like I posted vs like it is.

Yeah, it's actually THE reason that I bought into EFI Live. Segment swapping is nice but it's MUCH more affordable through TC so I don't use it for that. I was sooo incredibly disappointed by the release model. I agree with all of what you say here.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I'm positive there are no analog input provisions on the interface and this isn't a master slave setup where you'll be able to purchase one interface to send back & forth to different customers as that is, was, won't be its intent.

Its main intent is in a tunershop environment where a customer wants a handheld with his stock & multiple additional tunes on the interface so when he leaves the shop he can flash back to stock or change to a nitrous tune or higher boost tune, etc. whenever he wants rather than going back to the shop at a later time.

It can also be used for remote tuning but there will be a buy in amount ie you cannot just purchase one.

-Bill

Honestly that's incredibly disappointing. Even though I haven't seen the cost, I'm sure it will be in the realm of the Autocal.

What was HOPED for was a handheld that had remote delivery and logging in mind as well as what you mentioned... I could mail a unit out to a customer on deposit. He loads up a tune and then uses it to make a log. He emails me the log, I email him an update. He loads the update from email to the handheld, reflashes his car, rinse and repeat. When done, the unit comes back to me and he gets his deposit back (minus some license fee paid for use of the unit).

Thanks for the response. It looks like in my own personal case the HPT hand held isn't going to help me out anymore than autocal.

Same here.

TC has a much more affordable remote deployment and update solution but the stake through it's heart is that it does not log.

[Bill@HPTuners]

Yeah there are a few different frames of thought here...if you look at the ford/chrysler markets a handheld is pretty std fair.

for those looking at only GM then the std has been no handheld for the past 10 or so years and mail order tuning has been the std for remote tuning where the customer sends in the pcm/tcm.

Our handheld was mainly set to compete with the likes of the current ford solutions but also to be used in the gm market. For you Frost it would be an additional selling item as a reseller. It was never intended to be used as a master slave system where you send it out under deposit and back & forth it goes.

-Bill

[Frost]

Yeah there are a few different frames of thought here...if you look at the ford/chrysler markets a handheld is pretty std fair.

for those looking at only GM then the std has been no handheld for the past 10 or so years and mail order tuning has been the std for remote tuning where the customer sends in the pcm/tcm.

Our handheld was mainly set to compete with the likes of the current ford solutions but also to be used in the gm market. For you Frost it would be an additional selling item as a reseller. It was never intended to be used as a master slave system where you send it out under deposit and back & forth it goes.

-Bill

I understand the WHY though, it's the same reason as the other guys.

I thought about having a dedicated cable to ship out, but the curve is kind of steep and with the required group license already on it, the deposit would be too large for people to stomach. I guess what I am trying to say is that the functionality that I wanted (as well as other tuners) is the bit that you nixed there with the last sentence. I just don't see very many people that will be lining up to pay the $300 that these units will most likely cost. Besides that, their cost eats into what a tuner can charge, which is one reasons that so many have a bad taste for SCT. If someone has a bolt-ons car and they want to use this instead of pulling and mailing in their PCM (Corvette customer for example), all of a sudden when you factor in the cost of the tune itself ($150), you are now paying more (even though it beats a one-shot mail order) for a remote tune without wideband than you would for full tuning in person with a wideband AND a dyno (which is $400 here total).

That's the same thing that I pointed out over on the 'other guys' board. I figured they were targeting the Aussie market where tunes cost like $1000-1200 anyway.

I don't mean to be Debbie Downer here, it's just not what I was hoping for I guess.

[minytrker]

I understand the WHY though, it's the same reason as the other guys.

I thought about having a dedicated cable to ship out, but the curve is kind of steep and with the required group license already on it, the deposit would be too large for people to stomach. I guess what I am trying to say is that the functionality that I wanted (as well as other tuners) is the bit that you nixed there with the last sentence. I just don't see very many people that will be lining up to pay the $300 that these units will most likely cost. Besides that, their cost eats into what a tuner can charge, which is one reasons that so many have a bad taste for SCT. If someone has a bolt-ons car and they want to use this instead of pulling and mailing in their PCM (Corvette customer for example), all of a sudden when you factor in the cost of the tune itself ($150), you are now paying more (even though it beats a one-shot mail order) for a remote tune without wideband than you would for full tuning in person with a wideband AND a dyno (which is $400 here total).

That's the same thing that I pointed out over on the 'other guys' board. I figured they were targeting the Aussie market where tunes cost like $1000-1200 anyway.

I don't mean to be Debbie Downer here, it's just not what I was hoping for I guess.

I agree 100% and think the same way.

[kangsta]

i initially had the same reaction about efilive's autocal but when you do the maths its not too bad apart from the initial outlay, but im sure there are people who will sell you just one.

$300 for the unit includes a license so the actual unit is $200. You can have up to 8 vehicles so at the end of the day its only $25 per vehicle. And you have a bunch of scan tools when the license slots are all used up.

I'm guessing HPT will probably have a similar model...

[Frost]

It will be beneficial for the nitrous guys and forced induction alike, just not the remote delivery device that would replace mailing PCMs.

[Bill@HPTuners]

It will be beneficial for the nitrous guys and forced induction alike, just not the remote delivery device that would replace mailing PCMs.

Maybe for the older LS1 pcm's but for the newer applications with a pcm & tcm or a tcm built into the tranny it is still a viable option

[Kevin@JPCRacing]

I am a bit new to the GM/HP tuners stuff so please correct me if I misunderstand how some of your stuff works.

I am all for this handheld. I need the ability to give a customer multiple tunes when he leaves our shop. What I don't need is a big buy-in as I don't do a whole bunch of GM's(yet) or have a ton of money sitting around to invest in these sitting on the shelves. We only do in-house dyno/custom tuning and not volume mail-order. I've been finding that buy-in's are becoming a thing of the past with many of our suppliers that want to sell. Just make them available to the known dealers/legit tuning shops only and have a dealer lookup on your site where the customer puts in his zip code.

Shipping PCM's or flash cables back and forth is a bit ridiculous if you ask me. That's a large invitation for error. I would hate to lose the HP interface thru shipping or it get damaged or not returned. What happens if the hardware was not recoverable. Do you have to buy a license again when all those previously licensed customers come back for retuning? I have seen PCM's lost in overnite shipping to the race track etc..

I like the idea of putting the user's licensing on their hardware and not on mine. That way the responsibility is on them if the hardware is ever lost or damaged. Also, if a customer has his car tuned at 3 different shops before he comes to mine, am I correct that he has to buy a license from every one of them with your current hardware? unless he buys his own hardware(VCM suite). Diablo and SCT you can take to any dealer and have retuned without the burden of relicensing. In fact, Diablo can be returned to stock and used on another vehicle endless amount of times, whereas SCT has a limit of 5, then you pay to unlock it. These are some of the reasons they are successful in their market. The handcuffs aren't quite as tight when using their hardware.

The missing analog is a serious disappointment if you are planning to charge a premium...

Maybe I missed this but can the end user do realtime logging on his car with this unit hooked up to the laptop?

Thanks!
Kevin@JPC Racing

[Jae30001]

I think what bill is trying to say. The Whole idea of this handheld. Is to change tunes on the fly. Something alot of us are interested in as our tuner cars are our daily drivers. I come from a moates backround, where the tuner has 4 different tuning selection. As to where i can switch from my Fuel economy tune to my performance tune on, or even a nitrous tune on the fly. A Very much needed tool in the tuning world. This one of the my big worries coming into the hpt way of tuning. Great concept and great idea, kinda ballsy that i cant just purchase one though..

[Bill@HPTuners]

I think what bill is trying to say. The Whole idea of this handheld. Is to change tunes on the fly. Something alot of us are interested in as our tuner cars are our daily drivers. I come from a moates backround, where the tuner has 4 different tuning selection. As to where i can switch from my Fuel economy tune to my performance tune on, or even a nitrous tune on the fly. A Very much needed tool in the tuning world. This one of the my big worries coming into the hpt way of tuning. Great concept and great idea, kinda ballsy that i cant just purchase one though..

No changes will be done on the fly, as stated handhelds would be mainly for tunershops and mainly piece of hardware they can sell to their customers as well as supercharger/turbocharger companies that build tunes for their kits that they can send out with their kits.

Has nothing to do with on the fly tuning nor is it something meant for the single user that already owns our software/haredware package.

[LSxpwrdZ]

Do you guy's have an ETA on this handheld? I have some customers that are 2-3 hours away that would love to have this to switch between different size nitrous shot tunes and a NA tune.

Can you give us a little details on how many tunes it will store and what the licensing will be like? I'm curious to see if it will be like a buy credits to license or only works the vehicles that have the same VCM ID that I flash to the programmer from my HPT Cable.

[Bill@HPTuners]

Do you guy's have an ETA on this handheld? I have some customers that are 2-3 hours away that would love to have this to switch between different size nitrous shot tunes and a NA tune.

Can you give us a little details on how many tunes it will store and what the licensing will be like? I'm curious to see if it will be like a buy credits to license or only works the vehicles that have the same VCM ID that I flash to the programmer from my HPT Cable.

Not at this time.

[Gabbiani]

As a tuner who is currently researching Ford/Dodge options I'm still having a hard time buying into handhelds.

Aside from a few cases where a cars power levels and load vary greatly from day to day I don't understand the need for a customer to have 16 tunes available to them. I've always thought tune it for how the car will be driven and do it right. Customer is always right but my stomach turns everytime somebody says well I need an economy tune for my heads/cam car too.

I like options but so far this seems to be limited in the number of options. At least HPT isn't forcing us to go with the handheld model like the other guys.