Need Help. . .Did the russk idle log and now car wont start

[yahelou]

Hello everyone, i am new on this board. im starting to learn how to tune. So i started on my idle tuning and used the russk idle file. I started logging from a cold start to hot. and then changed the units to imperial and then pasted them into the base running idle airflow. the car idle before was decent, but after i applied the new settings, the car wont even turn on. i adjusted the tb to 0.57volts and the iac is between 40-60. can someone give me an idea on whats wrong. thanks.

[yahelou]

well i added +4 to each cell above 68 degrees and the car started up. but i still dont understand why the car didnt start up on the original tune. the car is in open loop w/o the maf connected if that matters.

[69lt1bird]

Your scan was in lb/min and the tune g/sec so the numbers are off a mile. Make sure they are both set to the same measurements.

[yahelou]

Your scan was in lb/min and the tune g/sec so the numbers are off a mile. Make sure they are both set to the same measurements.

i changed the units in the histogram and it came out in g/sec. was i also supposed to changed them in the table or pids?

[yahelou]

so i tried to crank up the car this morning and no luck. car turned on and stayed on for 5secs then shut off and would not turn on at all afterwards. any help with this?

[69lt1bird]

Your histogram table was logging in a different value that the tune file. To copy and paste, they must be in the same units. The way you had it originally in the files you have posted, the RussK data you copied and pasted would cause the poor or no idle.

Histogram said this:
Labels -40 -4 32 68 104 140 176 212 248 284
2.20 1.00 0.80 0.80

Tune file is this:
Labels -40 -4 32 68 104 140 176 212 248 284
Gear 22.100 20.640 19.190 17.780 16.879 7.331 6.195 5.854 11.380 10.200
P/N 22.100 22.100 22.100 22.100 16.879 7.331 6.195 5.854 22.100 22.100

See the huge difference in values? If you copy the histogram data directly without changing it from lb/min to g/sec to match the edit file your data will be wrong.

[yahelou]

i understand what ur saying and i did change the units to match the tune.

actually the tune i attached is not the original tune, it is the tune after i pasted the numbers from the histogram.

[69lt1bird]

What exactly are you working on? Stock? Mods?

Your timing tables look all wrong too. Give a bunch more detail and the latest tune file and log.

[yahelou]

Car is a 2000 Camaro Z28. I did a fresh rebuild with tsp 5.3L stage 2 heads, thunder racings 230/224+111 cam, 3200 stall, ls6 intake, LT headers and true duals, and underdrive pulley. I have been slowly learning how to tune with the help of a friend. But its been a pain in the ass. I was following ur procedures for the VE tuning, but my wideband stopped working. so while I am waiting to hear back from the WB company, I wanted to go ahead and work with the idle. but looks like i screwed it up. the files i attached are the lastest tune file and log before the car stopped turning on. thanks for the help, i do appreciate it.

[yahelou]

oh forgot to add the bosch 42 lb injectors.

[S2H]

What exactly are you working on? Stock? Mods?

Your timing tables look all wrong too. Give a bunch more detail and the latest tune file and log.

First off...
stop telling people that their timing tables are all wrong...
his timing table is mostly stock with the exception of one 12* blip at 800rpm and a few other cells that have been reduced...
his idle tables are ok... but honestly are a bit low for that cam.

try upping your idle spark tables to 26~28* in your idle areas.



secondly..if you had looked at the tune a little closer you would see that he already has the right values pasted in according to his log with the russ K config.


now... to the point at hand...
there could be a # of reasons why it doesnt want to idle for you...
honestly, you need the wideband to make sure fueling is close.. if fueling is rich or lean it can cause idle issues..
too lean = not enough power to keep the momentum needed for idle
too rich = boging down the motor with fuel causing a lack of power...same problem as above.

most cams, to find the best spark for idle.. get AFR stable-ish and around stoic-not necessarily 14.7, could be much less if you use ethanol or have some pump gas that includes up to 10% ethanol(usually I put the car in open loop for the time being to push around AFR to get it in the ballpark ...) push the timing around slowly using the VCM controls as an absolute value..
when your MAP stops going down, you have found the peak power for idle... take back the timing a couple of degrees from that point.

make your high octane table and your idle in gear/and park/neutral tables identical

if you have turned your TB set screw past about .55 volts... then you need to back it up, and drill a second hole in your TB. once you get past .55 the car no longer thinks its at closed throttle idle state, which makes it behave odd. the way around it is to drill a hole and reduce the amount of TB set screw you are using.


next... your over and underspeed spark tables..
you are going to need +/-16* by 400 rpm...carry it out to the end...it wont do any good or need any more than that.


heres my guess at what you need for idle...
you will need to redo RAF again...
add an extra 0.5g/sec in the idle airflow tables
you need to do 2 logs... one for P/N and one for in gear(foot on brake- e-brake on - in gear.. you can carry the last value out to the highest temps

it takes several passes to get it correct...always shoot for slightly high and let it try to learn lower...

I would send you a file...but I'm using latest beta...and it does most people no good because they cant read it.

[yahelou]

thanks a lot, i will try it tonight and see if it works. my question is about the over and underspeed spark tables. can you explain it some more? where do i find those tables and what do you mean exactly by "going to need +/-16* by 400 rpm"?

[69lt1bird]

Scott, I respect your opinion on here and think you are a very good contributor so I am not sure where you yelling at me came from, but whatever. When I looked at his idle in gear and in park timing tables and they look wrong, I am going to say they are wrong. His underspeed is zero across the board. As far as we knew this was a engine swap car or some huge cam, 13:1 or who knows what.

You can comment to me in PM if you want so we do not ruin the OP's thread, but to try to treat me like a subordinate of you is crap, Super Moderator or not.

[69lt1bird]

You will find them in the same tab as the high and low octane tables, at the bottom left.

[S2H]

sorry I snapped there... I just keep seeing people making comments that sound like someone saying "you are an idiot" in different wording...and I'm getting tired of seeing people do that.

were all here to help...
wish people would come up with positive ways to point out a problem

[S2H]

in your spark tab
in the overspeed table and underspeed table
populate the overspeed table as follows

0.00    0.00    -1.78    -3.56    -5.32    -7.10    -8.88    -10.66    -12.42    -14.20    -15.98    -15.98    -15.98    -15.98    -15.98    -15.98    -16.00    -16.00    -16.00    -16.00    -16.00    -16.00    -16.00

populate the underspeed table just the opposite

16.00    16.00    16.00    16.00    16.00    16.00    16.00    16.00    16.00    16.00    16.00    16.00    16.00    16.00    16.00    16.00    16.00    16.00    16.00    16.00    16.00    16.00    16.00    16.00    16.00    14.92    13.87    12.79    11.74    10.66    9.60    8.53    7.47    6.40    5.34    4.26    3.21    2.13    1.08    0.00    0.00

basically you start with putting 0* in the 0 and 25 cells and putting 16 in the 400 cell and using the "interpolate between horizontal bounds" button
then you continue with the 16* or -16* depending on if its the over or underspeed table
overspeed gets negative values... underspeed gets positive values.

[69lt1bird]

Not a problem, I try to help people a lot on here.

[yahelou]

alright guys so the car started up after i made the changes. but the idle still seems bad. the car was around 15.5 afr when cold and went to 13.0 once it got hot. here is the log and the most up to date tune file (i havent updated it with the russk log yet). btw the numbers from the russk log seem very low. why is that? and if you could please check for correctness over what u asked me to change. thanks.

[69lt1bird]

You may want to put the stock high and low octane tables and idle timing back in to get a restart. Scott wanted 26-28 at the idle range, you do want a difference in the cells, it will help with smoother transitions, surging etc, not just the same timing in the whole column.

Take the stock table and add timing to the area you are idling in, copy the columns to the idle tables so they match. Later you can play around with the VCM controls to help find the timing it really likes.

[yahelou]

Ok i see what u r saying. some of the columns were the same timing all the way thru so i thought thats how it was supposed to be. here is the updated tune file. tell me what u think.