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Thread: Simulated Narrow Band How To

  1. #1
    Senior Tuner S2H's Avatar
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    Simulated Narrow Band How To

    This is an updated version of an old thread...

    Basics..
    you need a wideband that has an analog output that can produce an OBD2 Narrowband voltage output...
    in this example, I will use the Innovate Technologies Widebands LC1/LM1/LM2

    read your owners manual for detailed info about which colored wires represent the wiring listed below


    Basic Wiring
    Get Power from the Battery and Ground From the Battery
    use a relay to have it switch power on when you turn the key on
    Most Auto Parts stores and electronics parts stores will carry the relay.
    the relay has a constant DC voltage input, a switched voltage input, a ground, and a voltage output.
    you will connect the battery to the constant voltage side and an ignition on dc source will go to the switched side.
    your voltage output will go to your LC1/LM1/LM2 +12v power
    the ground will connect at the Relay and continue to the LC1/LM1/LM2 ground.

    Analog Outputs

    the Positive lead will go to your Narrowband O2 "High Signal" line.
    the Negative Lead will go to 2 places. Narrowband 02 "Low Signal" and to the Battery Ground.
    the reason for this is that the PCM is looking for an 02 sensor..if it doesnt see a hard ground(the narrow band o2 grounds the low side thru the chassis) then you wont have any readings and the pcm will show a constant 450mv

    It is Imperative that you take all Grounds back to the Battery Ground.
    This will eliminate any ground loops and any ground offsets you may encounter if you decide to ground things in another manner.


    I took an old o2 sensor and lopped off the sensor itself so that I had a set of wires to use with a connector on it so I could just plug and play and not have to cut factory wiring.

    I got my ignition on power from the fuseblock in my engine bay
    I used gold plated double terminals for my battery to be able to hook my power and ground to it.

    you may have to play with the settings of your Wideband Device to get it to respond nicely to your vehicle. I had to widen my AFR range represented by the narrowband signal to get it to "switch" nicely
    Last edited by S2H; 11-11-2010 at 05:32 PM.
    -Scott - Formerly Known as "soundengineer"
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  2. #2
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    What issues do you see in using the power and ground from the old o2 sensor like is in the attached file?

  3. #3
    Senior Tuner S2H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vader06 View Post
    What issues do you see in using the power and ground from the old o2 sensor like is in the attached file?
    Unstable voltages, low voltages, poor ground wire, ground offsets, all of which leads to an inaccurate reading and an inaccurate output.

    Proper wiring is everything... that includes using proper gauge wire and a proper wiring and grounding scheme
    -Scott - Formerly Known as "soundengineer"
    Schexnayder Racing
    Engines, Transmissions, Tuning, Injector flowing and testing
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  4. #4
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    Thank you for the update! Should help out a lot of people unclear on this.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by soundengineer View Post

    Proper wiring is everything... that includes using proper gauge wire and a proper wiring and grounding scheme
    speaker wire is NOT proper wire. use primary wire for automotive.

  6. #6
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    ive looked for this question but cant find a straight answer as everyone else had a different intention who i found asking about it.
    I'm new at this, would it be more accurate for my pcm to maintain its tune if i kept the widebands simulating the narrowband to the ecm at all times? i have a c5 corvette that im doing my learning on, im trying to learn as much as i can before i get messing with tables. if i could run the widebands at all times, obviously running both banks with widebands would be my route.

    its a shame we even need wideband controllers and we can't just wire in widebands and re-cal the pcm to accept the feeds.

    i ask this as i wonder when i am done tuning, wont my narrowbands be inaccurate enough that they will throw off the tune?

    Thank you, corey
    Last edited by Corey@NvrEnuf; 01-08-2012 at 01:33 PM. Reason: "can -> can't"

  7. #7
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    with many of the widebands you can run as the narrow band and not have to have a narrow band sensor. thats what i am doing with my lc-1. it will act as the narrowband sensor for the pcm and as my wideband for tuning.

    i took an old narrow band o2 sensor and cut the sensor off. then connected the wires to the lc1, relay, and grounds and connected it to the stock connector, this way if i want to go back to a narrow band the wires are untouched.

  8. #8
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    Thank you Swiggles, i just notice the reply now, i had not checked this thread in a little while i suppose.
    upon further reading after i posted the question here, some say there is some delay since you have to have the narrowband output of the wideband set in such a way that it can cause some lag, something about the pcm is 8 bit i think, and the widebands put out 6 or 12, will work, but some say it is not as accurate.
    i figure slowing down the update rate on the LTFT's like you would with LongTube headers would help avoid the pcm storing any errors further then stft.


    another idea i had while in a catalog for something else. i need to find it again to post here and see what you guys think.
    using a o2 from a newer vehicle which is considered a wideband by the manufacturer, but it operates on a 0-1v scale. I thought this would especially be handy for those of us which have tweaked our o2 switchpoints a little excessively for those mpg savings, which equals more savings for more Mods, Lol.

    ill post back once i have a few minutes to get a good example, hopefully from another gm product. however if threads and Input/outputs are similar, we should be able to wire % tune in any 0-1v o2, I think, as im still on the steep end of the learning curve, even though learning never ends, some areas of the pcm get Intense!

  9. #9
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    This is what i did with the FAST lamda module 1.5v output / 1 = input V and 1-2v on the chart display to get a centre playback....

    First post here on the HPTuners so hope that the attachment shows
    Attached Images Attached Images

  10. #10
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    Looks like this when logging Let me know what you think and hope it was of some help... sure to be old news on here...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by C5 Scully; 05-01-2013 at 08:04 PM.

  11. #11
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    An email response i received from innovate technical support,...

    I would strongly recommend not replacing factory narrowband sensors as this can have a detrimental effect on not only the way the vehicle runs,
    but also potentially damaged the ECU.

  12. #12
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    I also have had bad experiences replacing the factory NB's with the simulated NB output from a WB. I tell everyone that asks not to do it.

    The damage part is over my head.. but one error on the WB controller and the output is going to go to 0 and it'll keep adding fuel to make the sensor swing back rich... which it never will. Eventually it should error out but until then good luck driving anywhere.
    Post a log and tune if you want help

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