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Thread: 6L80E 3-4 slow.

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    Walker,

    I currently have a Circle D 2800 stall converter in the car. This issue happened to me at the track once, and after that it started hitting the rev limiter on every gear. Took care of the rev limiter issues they are gone now after the changes i made, but this issue still persist. Can you take a look at my tranny tune? I used bluecat's spreadsheet to set my shift points and tcc apply/release settings.
    Since TM is turned off in your tune, the only way to increase your shift feel/time is by pressure since your shift times are all relatively low. Although 594 is the max value you can place in the maximum line pressure per-gear/table, I have only seen up wards of 350 with the tables maxed in a built tranny. Try maxing out your base tables for 3-4 (297) and line pressure values (594) for gears 3 and 4. This goes for anyone having a slow 3-4 shift. The max clutch pack delivered pressure I've seen is around 250. If it gets too harsh, back it off in increments of 50. Hope this helps guys.

    Circle D is currently running one of my tunes and a recent valve body modification which is delivering a 50 ms shift at WOT with no TM. It is shifting so hard and fast, they actually broke the shaft. When they get it dialed back and feel it is releasable to the public, I'll start a thread on the new upgrade.
    Last edited by Waker; 02-11-2011 at 06:52 PM.
    11.49 @ 118 1.49 60' Bolt on 2010 IOM Camaro

    www.6l80etuning.com 6L80/90 Tuning

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8850 View Post
    Here are two logs although no PIDs to determine converter locking but rpm seems to show no signs of locking that I can determine. The 11.317 pass has a much slower 3-4. On the 11.224 I hot lapped and that 3-4 was much quicker. My WOT starts about frame 2234 on the 11.317 pass and 6004 on my 11.224.

    And a screen shot the way my Full Throttle table was set for these passes.
    I don't have enough data to tell exactly what the tranny was doing, but your 11.2 pass had some serious knock at the launch and throughout the run. You spun from 1-2 and could have easily ran an 11.1 flat IMO. The 3-4 shift happened 200 rpm lower then the 11.3 run, but shift time was not logged so I can't see which shift was faster. You were 3 mph faster when you hit 4th in the 12.3 run, which is concurrent with the higher rpm. Still, very impressive times for your NA setup. Are you really running low elevens with no power adders?
    Last edited by Waker; 02-11-2011 at 07:14 PM.
    11.49 @ 118 1.49 60' Bolt on 2010 IOM Camaro

    www.6l80etuning.com 6L80/90 Tuning

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    I don't have enough data to tell exactly what the tranny was doing, but your 11.2 pass had some serious knock at the launch and throughout the run. You spun from 1-2 and could have easily ran an 11.1 flat IMO. The 3-4 shift happened 200 rpm lower then the 11.3 run, but shift time was not logged so I can't see which shift was faster. You were 3 mph faster when you hit 4th in the 12.3 run, which is concurrent with the higher rpm. Still, very impressive times for your NA setup. Are you really running low elevens with no power adders?
    Yea, I need to do better logging to determine what this trany is doing. Sorry not a Circle D, but I'm installing a converter this weekend and hopefully get some problems ironed out before next track visit. With this tight stock converter I think I had too much timing at launch. That should be solved with the converter.

    But no, I don't have a power added and I am running low 11s. I've got an A6 08 Z51 LS3 Corvette with headers, CAI, UDP, light weight battery (21#) and 17" MT drag radials. Not sure what my car weighs but before the battery, headers and dr's my race weight was 3380#. Probably 3300+/- now. Scale hasn't been working at HRP (Royal Purple Raceway) last two times out.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    I'll look when I get home.
    Thanks!

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    Thanks!
    Look up a couple posts.
    11.49 @ 118 1.49 60' Bolt on 2010 IOM Camaro

    www.6l80etuning.com 6L80/90 Tuning

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8850 View Post
    Yea, I need to do better logging to determine what this trany is doing. Sorry not a Circle D, but I'm installing a converter this weekend and hopefully get some problems ironed out before next track visit. With this tight stock converter I think I had too much timing at launch. That should be solved with the converter.

    But no, I don't have a power added and I am running low 11s. I've got an A6 08 Z51 LS3 Corvette with headers, CAI, UDP, light weight battery (21#) and 17" MT drag radials. Not sure what my car weighs but before the battery, headers and dr's my race weight was 3380#. Probably 3300+/- now. Scale hasn't been working at HRP (Royal Purple Raceway) last two times out.
    Awesome times. Best I've managed in my 4k Camaro is an 11.8 @ 114. I do offer tech support for guys with issues for a small fee. I have to charge unless you run Circle D stuff, part of the contract. If you have not ran a high stall before, you should expect a slightly lower ET accompanied by a lower MPH. Also the ability to roast the tires at 30 or 40 MPH
    11.49 @ 118 1.49 60' Bolt on 2010 IOM Camaro

    www.6l80etuning.com 6L80/90 Tuning

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    Awesome times. Best I've managed in my 4k Camaro is an 11.8 @ 114. I do offer tech support for guys with issues for a small fee. I have to charge unless you run Circle D stuff, part of the contract. If you have not ran a high stall before, you should expect a slightly lower ET accompanied by a lower MPH. Also the ability to roast the tires at 30 or 40 MPH
    Thanks! Yes I have ran loose converters before. Depending on how loose you go they definitely work! Had a 347 Mustang than ran 10.3s and then a 98 Camaro 10.7s. Almost went with a Circle D when I got this Yank but Speed Inc. had a group purchase that I couldn't pass up.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8850 View Post
    Thanks! Yes I have ran loose converters before. Depending on how loose you go they definitely work! Had a 347 Mustang than ran 10.3s and then a 98 Camaro 10.7s. Almost went with a Circle D when I got this Yank but Speed Inc. had a group purchase that I couldn't pass up.
    Yanks are awesome. I'm currently working with Chris on a "hybrid" converter that when tuned correctly engages partly (slips) to limit rpm rise from 2nd gear on, then has full lockup capability when demanded. It will have a 4K stall but be very street able with my tuning. It Sport mode it will be tuned for zero lockup. I'm currently running a 3.5K stall in this manner and have had zero issues, and it is not technically designed for this. I fly in Friday to see the first of three test mules. I will run one, as well as them and one other tester. If all goes well it will be the ultimate converter for NA applications. Once I start official testing, I will start a new thread on multiple forums.
    11.49 @ 118 1.49 60' Bolt on 2010 IOM Camaro

    www.6l80etuning.com 6L80/90 Tuning

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    Yanks are awesome. I'm currently working with Chris on a "hybrid" converter that when tuned correctly engages partly (slips) to limit rpm rise from 2nd gear on, then has full lockup capability when demanded. It will have a 4K stall but be very street able with my tuning. It Sport mode it will be tuned for zero lockup. I'm currently running a 3.5K stall in this manner and have had zero issues, and it is not technically designed for this. I fly in Friday to see the first of three test mules. I will run one, as well as them and one other tester. If all goes well it will be the ultimate converter for NA applications. Once I start official testing, I will start a new thread on multiple forums.
    Sounds interesting! A 4K stall that is streetable! Keep us posted.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    Since TM is turned off in your tune, the only way to increase your shift feel/time is by pressure since your shift times are all relatively low. Although 594 is the max value you can place in the maximum line pressure per-gear/table, I have only seen up wards of 350 with the tables maxed in a built tranny. Try maxing out your base tables for 3-4 (297) and line pressure values (594) for gears 3 and 4. This goes for anyone having a slow 3-4 shift. The max clutch pack delivered pressure I've seen is around 250. If it gets too harsh, back it off in increments of 50. Hope this helps guys.
    Is it a good idea then to max out base pressure and line pressure for all gears?

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by B&Vperformance View Post
    Is it a good idea then to max out base pressure and line pressure for all gears?
    I have the last three cells maxed for all gears, but it really depends on your mods. A forced inducted car will have a higher delivered torqued value than an NA. Delivered torque is what the TCM uses to determine how fast the packs come on and off. In a blown car, my NA aggressive tune is too harsh, I have to scale it back. Tested and confirmed via manipulating the MAF curve so the ECM generates over 600lb of torque, when it is actually only making 400. It is the one tuning aspect I have no control over, therefore I have an NA and a FI tune.
    11.49 @ 118 1.49 60' Bolt on 2010 IOM Camaro

    www.6l80etuning.com 6L80/90 Tuning

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    I have the last three cells maxed for all gears, but it really depends on your mods. A forced inducted car will have a higher delivered torqued value than an NA. Delivered torque is what the TCM uses to determine how fast the packs come on and off. In a blown car, my NA aggressive tune is too harsh, I have to scale it back. Tested and confirmed via manipulating the MAF curve so the ECM generates over 600lb of torque, when it is actually only making 400. It is the one tuning aspect I have no control over, therefore I have an NA and a FI tune.
    When you say "too aggressive" do you mean it just shifts too hard or wont make the shifts?

    I have an 06 Vette with a cam and bolt-ons making 434rwhp and 405rwtq I also have a 125 shot which it then makes 530rwhp and 530rwtq. I'm more worried about clutch/tranny life then how it feels.
    Last edited by B&Vperformance; 05-10-2011 at 08:52 PM.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by B&Vperformance View Post
    When you say "too aggressive" do you mean it just shifts too hard or wont make the shifts?

    I have an 06 Vette with a cam and bolt-ons making 434rwhp and 405rwtq I also have a 125 shot which it then makes 530rwhp and 530rwtq. I'm more worried about clutch/tranny life then how it feels.
    The FI cars shift too hard with my NA tune. With the same tune your car should shift harder when you juice it. If you don't care how hard it shifts, max all the cells and minimize all your times. If that is too aggressive, scale the pressure back 50 psi at a time from the left cell (min torque) working your way right until it feels good.
    11.49 @ 118 1.49 60' Bolt on 2010 IOM Camaro

    www.6l80etuning.com 6L80/90 Tuning

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    The FI cars shift too hard with my NA tune. With the same tune your car should shift harder when you juice it. If you don't care how hard it shifts, max all the cells and minimize all your times. If that is too aggressive, scale the pressure back 50 psi at a time from the left cell (min torque) working your way right until it feels good.
    So max out every shift pressure table, disable all the adaptive pressure tabs, and 0 out the discrete shift torque mode?


    Is there any chance of doing damage to the trans witht this set up? I know it's better for the clutches but anything else it could damage?
    Last edited by B&Vperformance; 05-11-2011 at 10:09 PM.

  15. #55
    Also anyone know what the lowest desired shift time you can get away with?

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by B&Vperformance View Post
    So max out every shift pressure table, disable all the adaptive pressure tabs, and 0 out the discrete shift torque mode?


    Is there any chance of doing damage to the trans witht this set up? I know it's better for the clutches but anything else it could damage?
    I've seen sheered shafts but with valve body modifications. I would leave adaptives on, the tranny performs better. Always have some value in your torque adders if the base times are zero,but discrete torque really does nothing.
    11.49 @ 118 1.49 60' Bolt on 2010 IOM Camaro

    www.6l80etuning.com 6L80/90 Tuning

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by B&Vperformance View Post
    Also anyone know what the lowest desired shift time you can get away with?
    Anything above zero, especially with a vette.
    11.49 @ 118 1.49 60' Bolt on 2010 IOM Camaro

    www.6l80etuning.com 6L80/90 Tuning

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    Anything above zero, especially with a vette.
    So .001 will work and actually make it shift that much faster?

    Btw, thank you for the info. Not many people have as much useful info as you.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by B&Vperformance View Post
    So .001 will work and actually make it shift that much faster?

    Btw, thank you for the info. Not many people have as much useful info as you.
    Car will never shift that fast, but i will try. The tranny will handle whatever psi you throw at it. I've seen as much as 300 main line and 250 to the clutches. Only time the tranny broke was after valve body mods, not recommended unless your a professional builder.
    11.49 @ 118 1.49 60' Bolt on 2010 IOM Camaro

    www.6l80etuning.com 6L80/90 Tuning

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    Car will never shift that fast, but i will try. The tranny will handle whatever psi you throw at it. I've seen as much as 300 main line and 250 to the clutches. Only time the tranny broke was after valve body mods, not recommended unless your a professional builder.
    Awesome! I have some more stuff to try.