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Thread: LS1 Ecu running non GM motor

  1. #1
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    LS1 Ecu running non GM motor

    Hi Guys,
    Im chasing some help/info regarding LS1 Ecu's,
    I have a 4.6ltr Rover V8 in my 93RRC.

    The car currently runs a wolf ecu with a 4+1 crank trigger and has faclilties for a cam sensor if required.

    The current system runs a 0 to 4.8v TPS and a Bosch/GM IAT and ECT sensors.

    No Maf so would run an SD tune

    Running 4 coil pack in wasted spark ( will an LS1 ecu support wasted spark or only coil on plug?)

    Trans is 4 speed ZF auto. Mech/hydraulic controlled so no requirement to control the trans.

    The car also has abs triggers/speed sensor so depending on the tooth count I would possibly be able to derive VSS from on of these (Does the LS1 ecu need VSS?)

    What input triggers would the LS1 ecu be looking for? Is there a particular model/year ecu that would best suit the conversion?

    Are you able to alter firing order in the PCM or would the cars wiring need to be configured too suit the ecu?

    thanks in advance for the info guys

    Luke
    04 Velocity MKII M6 & 06 BF F6 555 ZF6

  2. #2
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    no one......?
    04 Velocity MKII M6 & 06 BF F6 555 ZF6

  3. #3
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    I am not aware of a way for the LS1 computer to control a waste spark ignition, coil near plug only. Your stock crank sensor/wheel will not work. To work properly the pcm would need a speed input signal. Not all the answers you were looking for but a start..

  4. #4
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    Thanks for the info mate. its a start. what functions does the Pcm need VSS for
    ? Idle etc?


    The car runs a custom setup at the moment so converting from wasted spark to coil on plug isnt an issue. same/same for the crank trigger its a setup i built which could easily be converted 24+1 or 36+1 or whatever else the PCM may need

    Can somebody confirm the LS1 Pcm will ONLT support a 24x crank trigger and single cam trigger?
    Last edited by hiddeous; 11-29-2010 at 07:43 PM.
    04 Velocity MKII M6 & 06 BF F6 555 ZF6

  5. #5
    EFI Connection makes a kit to run a SBC/BBC with a LS1 PCM. I am guessing you can use it with some modification to work with other engines.

    As far as the 24/1 signal I am not sure. I am pretty sure the Express vans used the LS1 style PCM with a SBC, so I think it is the calibration that makes it coil near plug as opposed to a distributor. I can not remember if a vortec engine is 24/1 or not, I want to say the reluctor inside the distributor is more than a 1x. However I do not know of a chevy V8 that used waste spark.

    For firing order you need to change the pin outs at the PCM for coils/injectors, then change the injector bank selection if you want to use CL. Also the firing order in the tune for Misfire detection(will not do anything except misfire detection). I have not tried this myself, but this is what I have gathered from looking for my own project and talking to the folks at EFI Connection.

  6. #6
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    Hi mate,
    Thanks for the info. Have looked at the EFI Connection but it prohibitivly expensive ($275) for an item im going to cut up anyway. Im better off using a
    GM part.

    Thanks for the tip on the cylinder bank selection. I was wondering how to work around that as the actual mech/electrical side is very easy too sort out

    as it happens the firing order requires only 4 cylinders to be altered.

    Wasted spark is not an issue as i can source coil packs for both banks for $200aud so I will convert too coil on plug.

    My dizzy can be modded from 8X down to 2 or 1x if need be.
    04 Velocity MKII M6 & 06 BF F6 555 ZF6

  7. #7
    I think I may have been wrong on the express van PCM. Did a little looking and the part numbers are not the same.

    You will need a VSS signal for the LS1 PCM, if you want to get out of idle tables for tuning.

    what is the firing order on the Rover V8? 18654372?

  8. #8
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    1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2

    Do you happen to know what input the VSS needs?
    04 Velocity MKII M6 & 06 BF F6 555 ZF6

  9. #9
    I think it is just a square wave, in the tune it is labled as pulses per mile. I would think you could make it work with any abs/vss type sensor and reluctor.

  10. #10
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    The Express van uses a 4x crank signal & 1x Cam signal IIRC. So you could get the reluctor & crank sensor from any 5.0 - 5.7 or 7.4Vortec truck engine 96-2000 and use the 2002 Express Van operating system along with your distributor & coil.
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  11. #11
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    do they still run sequential inj and coil on plug? do the PCMs have
    the same functionality as the car ls1 units?
    04 Velocity MKII M6 & 06 BF F6 555 ZF6

  12. #12
    The express vans use a distributor, so to go Coil near plug you would need to go with a 24x crank signal. The Vans also have a mechanical/electrical injector spider, but you can cut the harness and wire in reqular injectors. they are sequential. As far as functionallity, I thought the vans had a diffrent max RPM hard coded in, but I may be wrong. Other than that the tables I have looked at are the same.

  13. #13
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    Using an 0411 pcm could give you a couple options depending on the operating system. It was used in the express vans 2001ish to control a vortec 5.7l with 4x crank and 1x cam signals. That combination used a distributor and mpfi.

    Gm also used that pcm in some of the 2001 and newer LS vehicles which should have a 24x crank and 2x cam signals. This combination would have coil on plug and mpfi.

    Using parts from eficonnection, hptuners, and a 0411pcm you can put mpfi and coil on plug on an old sbc. All it requires is some careful wiring and your main inputs. No reason your landrover cant.

  14. #14
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    thanks for the info minitrucker, can you suggest a shop/wrecker in the US that might be able to help me out?

    Im running up against some crazy issues with part here in Aus, how does having too buy a new LS1 crank to source a trigger wheel sound??? or $295 for a crank trigger sensor???

    Im confident i can make it work with the right bits. But as its for a car that used primarly for towing a trailer too the dump and carting my Bull Mastif Cross around im reluctant to speed big $'s on it!

    Im open to suggestions for US based parts suppliers that may have the bits i need


    cheers
    Luke
    04 Velocity MKII M6 & 06 BF F6 555 ZF6

  15. #15
    I am pretty sure the LS1/6 are 24x/1x. You can get a LS1 crank sensor for around $95 at a dealer here in the states. As for the reluctor, and the sensor for that matter, the LS1 sensor/reluctor is located at the back of the crank. I would think that drilling a hole in the back of the block and adapting a reluctor that is on the back of the crank(in the crankcase) would be more difficult than putting a reluctor on the crank snout and adapting the timing cover. I know EFI Connection has a crank sensor for the Vortec style conversion, which uses the crank reluctor they sell also. You might want to call them and tell them what you are doing. What else does the Rover engine share with a SBC other than firing order? Is it a push rod/OHC? Sorry dont feel like using google.

  16. #16
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    Have been in touch with eficonnection. I plan to run a stock reluctor modded to mount on the back of the harmonic balancer. Im running this setup and the engine will be quite easy to mod to suit the GM parts.

    The only issue I see there is timing it correctly

    The engine was running a bosch/gm dizzy from a 5.7ltr holden motor here in Aus. This runs a hall effect with and 8x trigger. This will be modded to provide crank phasing.

    The Rover doesnt share a great deal with anything GM these days. The original 3.5ltr Versions where made too a design purchased from Buick in the late 60's.

    Mine is the last of this version of the engine. Stroked to 4.6ltrs, 4 bolt mains, ally block and heads. Ram tub inductuion under a common plenum. Single cam OHV.
    The engine wieghs 130kgs built ready to run so that is one of there strenghts.
    Mine makes aprox 240kw at the crank with a nice torque spread due to the long intake runners.

    Im just sick of the drivability issues with the aftermarket Ecu and the lack of decent closed loop etc
    04 Velocity MKII M6 & 06 BF F6 555 ZF6

  17. #17
    Dizzy? Distributor? If so, use a vortec dist. and buy the nice cap that EFI makes, that will provide you with the cam signal. I am guessing that is what you mean by crank phasing?

  18. #18
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    Yes mate that is correct. Just too clarify, the engine originally ran a fuel only computer. I upgraded this to an aftermarket fuel and Ign ECU using the distrbutor. I then converted it too crank trigger with 4+1 crank triggering and wasted spark IGN. No cam angle input for the ECU it runs now.

    The distributor is still fitted but only because it also drives the oil pump. Its serves no purpose other than that.

    The plan is 24x crank trigger, 1 or 2x cam sensor (using the modded remains of the dizzy), Coil on plug and an LS1 computer SD tuned
    04 Velocity MKII M6 & 06 BF F6 555 ZF6

  19. #19
    If you have a SBC type dist. then the vortec dist should be a drop in, and that is what EFI Con uses for the LS1 conversion. There Vortec kit should work for you, with the exception of modding the crank reluctor/sensor bracket. The vortec is a 1x cam signal, I am guessing the old dizzy was a small cap HEI, if memory serves had a 8x wheel on it.

  20. #20
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    Dizzy was modded too fit. I wont have any problem using what i have now to provide the cam angle signal.

    I cant see they value in purchasing the eficonnection parts for this conversion as non of it is bolt on for my engine and will all need to be modded significantly to allow it too work. The cost of the eficonnection parts doesnt make this a worthwhile exercise.

    Bascially i will need to adapt the 24x GM Reluctor wheel to fit., Modify/Fabricate Crank sensor mounting bracket. Modify remains of Dizzy to
    accept the correct Cam sensor (assuming the current sensor is not compatiable) and modify the 8x wheel to 1x (also not a problem)

    Fabricate coil on plug mounting brackets

    Wire it up and Tune appropriatly.

    I appreciate your suggestion re eficonnection but would prefer to use cheaper factory parts. The efi connection reluctor wheel is $295 alone and as it sits it wont fit and would probably cost more than the the total of the factory parts i can buy.

    I can lay my hands on a 2nd hand LS1 PCM, Wirirng harness (from an aussie car) and Coils and stock brackets for AUD $700, so I would like too if possible source the reluctor/crank sensor/cam sensor for less the $300 too keep the cost under 1k. Will be doing all fab and wiring etc myself as well as the tuning

    Im working on this budget as I can sell my current ecu at that amount too cover my costs

    cheers
    Luke
    04 Velocity MKII M6 & 06 BF F6 555 ZF6