Help-Help in the editor or scanner.
THe help file is IN the software, if your pc is going to an internet page that is an issue with your pc.
Help-Help in the editor or scanner.
THe help file is IN the software, if your pc is going to an internet page that is an issue with your pc.
It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...
A wise man once said "google it"
Well i am no IT expert... but i dont know why or how the software would call out to a website if the guide is IN it? So i have no idea how to FIX this??? see below screenshot .681 Beta, re-dowloaded 5 min ago. Again the "working with the E78" works just fine, OR is that ALL the E78 guide is?
Last edited by BAD LS1; 07-18-2012 at 02:55 PM.
2007 Suburban - Slammed, Cammed, Geared and Stalled.
If anyone has an Auto LT/Z, maybe even an LS, tune they can put in the repository it would be appreciated, it appears by looking at the TCM tables that Chevy made the "M" mode extremely retarded on the ECO, trying to figure out how to get it off of the short bus.
Setting TUTD to 'Enabled' Vs 'Disabled' doesn't do anything other than remove the gear indicator while in manual mode, car still does not respond to the 'Y' table configuration I have it set to.
Setting it to 'Enabled', then enabling 'Range Select', which then gives you a 'Range Active" option, which is defaulted to 'D6" other options are D1, D2...D6 (6 gears), N, Rev, P, 9. Not sure if 9 would be 'all' or what. If I leave it set to D6, it does something odd...once I put it into 'M' the DIC does not show M1, but shows it in 'D' and DRIVES like its in normal Drive. However if I tap-up, it goes right into normal tapshift mode, adhereing to the 'Y' tables....then...and I could be retarded here too but once I put it back into real 'Drive' it STAYS in tapshift mode, in the current gear, and will stay there until I go into Neutral then back to 'Drive'.
I just want a normal functioning "TUTD" M mode, I've tried every combination of TUTD settings and it's still not behaving like any other car I've owned has. Really what I want is 'M' to conform to the 'Y' tables, for the Up/Down Req to be active (this works on enable) and for the display to show actual gear not requested gear, in all circumstances. I've heard the LT has a better TapShift tune so I was just going to see if I can dupe it and see what kind of results I get.
Chris you play with TUTD at all? Don't you officially own a Cruze now? If it's a non-eco automatic, is there anyway you can put the stock file in the repository? I can't find a single stock Cruze tune in there at all. Not enough activity yet I suppose.
Last edited by LS4FTL; 07-18-2012 at 02:52 PM.
On another note I tweaked the shift pressures/times for the 'X' pattern and wow...modest changes to pressures/shift times made it feel like an entirely different car. So I have this love/hate thing going on right now with the TCM.
sorry that's my bad, the help system is html based and i scrweed up one of the links. just go directly to the contents items for the E78 guide, it works.Originally Posted by BAD LS1
Well i am no IT expert... but i dont know why or how the software would call out to a website if the guide is IN it? So i have no idea how to FIX this??? see below screenshot .681 Beta, re-dowloaded 5 min ago. Again the "working with the E78" works just fine, OR is that ALL the E78 guide is?
I count sheep in hex...
here is my stock tune.
i don't know exactly what you are trying to achieve, the most retarded thing for me is you move the stick forward to upshift and back to downshift.
What i have done to make the shifts much, much better is:
- make the shift interia factor tables higher
- halve all the shift times
I count sheep in hex...
Well i spent a couple of hours on the dyno today to test various things and to roughly see where these engines are at. The main objective was to see the ballpark increases possible using the stock engine hardware and also discover any oddbal codes or issues that might be seen, not spend a week getting the optimum tune.
Stock was 79 rwkw (106rwhp)
Tuned was 100rwkw (135rwhp)
The biggest gains were in the midrange RPM with 50% more power in the midrange. This really improves the driving experience and gives you that midrange punch combined with firming up the shifts.
We ran the boost up to around 20psi (stock is around 12-13psi). From memory we had maybe 3-4 degrees of timing @ WOT but some places had to go a little lower. This will be a little surprising for most folks used to tuning larger engines.
One thing to note is the engine pings on the stock tune with the highest octane (98) pump gas you can buy here in Australia, so you need to be very careful not to bring the boost on too strong in the low RPMs (2000-3500). The stock knock sensor calibration seems to be very accurate so i would not be assuming any knock is false knock, it is likely real. We used a knock box with sensor attached to the engine to hear the knock.
As i said this was not an exercise in spending a week finding an awesome balls out tune, as such we didn't mess with the cam timing tables at all. No doubt there is horsepower to be found there. We stuck to the basics and an excellent 25% gain at the top end and 50% gain in the midrange.
Chris...
I count sheep in hex...
Excellent results!
I just downloaded the latest 2.23.684 beta and read through the excellent E78 tuning guide in the Help section. In some ways, these little 1.4L turbo cars seem like they are fairly easy to tune with all of the new torque settings seemingly doing most of the heavy lifting. It also looks like they don't require a lot of timing to make power (unlike my LS2 and LS7 tuning experiences) with moderate to higher boost.
What exactly did you guys tweak to achieve these nice gains compared to a stock (and apparently de-tuned from the factory) 1.4L turbo? It sounds like you didn't have to put in a lot of time to figure out the basics of a quick E78 tune. Please expound on the basics of your tuning changes.
I was looking through a Cruze file and noticed the VE coeff are not based on a pressure ratio? Seems the bluecat tool doesnt support the decimal points for pressure ratio. Does the same formula still apply that was posted here?
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8490
VE = Constant + KMap².MAP² + KMap.MAP + KMapRPM.MAP.RPM + KMapEx.MAP.Ex + KMapIn.MAP.In + KRpm².RPM² + KRpm.RPM + KRpmEx.RPM.Ex + KRpmIn.RPM.In + KRpm.RPM + KEx².Ex² + KEx.Ex + KExIn.Ex.In + KIn².In² + KIn.In
where:
- Kxxx is the coefficient from the current zone
- MAP² is MAP squared
- MAP is MAP
- RPM is RPM
- RPM² is RPM squared
- Ex is Exhaust Cam Angle
- Ex² is Exhaust Cam Angle squared
- In is Intake Cam Angle
- In² is Intake Cam Angle squared
Been finally playing with upped boost levels now, however it seems to be a bit of a struggle, more so than just upping the driver demand table. But i have gotten it to hold about 225 kpa thus far but cant really get it to go any higher despite upping all the mentioned limiters and setting max limit to 235 kpa. Engine delivered torque is not exceeding my set driver demand tables either...
Anyway, this "throttle pressure drop" table... if i set the the numbers as it recomends between 20-30 kpa. the car will go from being a little rocket to flat out sucks with JUST that change. am i missing something? Am i perhaps requesting too much boost and its hitting a limit? but it wont even go much over 200 kpa with that setting like that? zero it out and all is good again. wtf?
2007 Suburban - Slammed, Cammed, Geared and Stalled.
yeah i tried playing with that table, i ended up leaving it at zero
The main culprit might is probably the knock airmass table, or the turbo overspeed limiting.
eg.
Pressure Delta factor = 2.00 whole table
Knock airmass = 2.00 whole table
Overspeed limit Min = 2.00
Driver Demand MAP A = Set 100% pedal row to 200
peak torque = 500 whole table
brake torque = 500 whole table
overboot limit = 500 whole table
rear propshaft max torque = 8192
This will hold the wastegate closed to your boost limit. I found using the knock airmass table and the Turbo Overspeed Pressure Ratio Max table easy ways to control boost instead of just the max limit table. The Knock airmass table will let you ramp in boost easily, while the pressure ratio limit is good for dropping of the boost at high RPM's where the intercooler is struggling.
I count sheep in hex...
yes, it is the same
I count sheep in hex...
thanks Chris
Thank, Chris. This is starting to get interesting to figure where all of the performance bottleneck tables are with these little turbo engines. Could you please post your quasi-finalized .hpt file for those of us still trying to figure out which tables unwittingly limit our other changes? Also, I uploaded my stock tune 1.4L turbo tune in the Repository a week ago, but it hasn't shown up yet, nor have any other 1.4L tunes for that matter. Thanks!
i don't want to upload my tune because i know someone will use it in their car and break something
The changes i listed above are all i made to the turbo and torque management areas. If you make those changes and also set the max boost to something really high, the ECM will hold the wastegate closed all the way to the RPM limiter and set the boost sensor high voltage DTC (P0238 i think it is). I wouldn't recommend this, because others have shown that high boost and high RPM on stock valve springs will float the valves and if they hit the pistons bad things happen.
The advice i have received from others and my own experiences is to keep the boost below 22psi (~250kPa limit) and at high RPM's unless you improve the intercooler or are using meth/water injection you will probably want to lower the boost anyway.
In order to ramp the boost in slower in the midrange, tweak the stock numbers in the Knock Airmass table. Where you want to get full boost put high numbers in. I used the stock numbers + maybe 5-10% up to 3000-3500rpm then went full boost. At the top end i tweaked the pressure ratio max table but you could also use the Knock Airmass table. The table axes are configurable so you can move to higher RPMs or airflows if need be. The knock airmass table is pretty powerfull because you can choose how much boost to pull depending on knock a great safety feature.
I found that the engine really starts to make that turbo BOV sound when you start making high boost in the midrange and you let off the gas. I didn't go for the full ricer option of disabling the BOV but i might try that next. Might check if new turbo's are in stock first
Apart from the torque limit tables, the Knock Airmass and the Pressure Ratio Max tables are the tables GM uses to control the boost, the Boost Max Limit is really a safety catch. Pressure Delta Factor controls how fast the boost can ramp up.
Also, my expriences show that the knock sensors are calibrated very well. Everytime we heard knock on the knock box, it showed up in the scanner. DO not fall into the trap of thinking 1-2deg of KR on the scanner is okay, your pistons will not thank you for it at 22psi boost.
Chris...
Last edited by Chris@HPTuners; 08-07-2012 at 05:00 PM.
I count sheep in hex...
The "Spark Airmass Mult" is 0.75 in the cruze's where on the 6L its 1.00. Does that mean on the spark advance table axis where it says 0.75g/cyl its actually 1.07g/cyl in the scanner? Any thoughts on why GM would do this when the axis is rescalable?
no, i need to fix the name and description for this value
The ECM calculates the current airmass and two predicted airmasses (for the next ref count and also 2 ref counts ahead) and this is a blend factor of them that is used for the spark axis airmass. It doesn't reduce or increase the spark axis airmass. It effectively determines how far "ahead" in the airmass predictions the spark airmass is taken.
eg.
if this value is 0, spark airmass = current airmass
if this value is 1.0, spark airmass = predicted next ref airmass
if this value is 2.0, spark airmass = predicted next two refs airmass
any value in between is a blend.
0.75 means spark airmass = current airmass + 0.75 * (predicted next ref airmass - current airmass)
Last edited by Chris@HPTuners; 08-08-2012 at 07:04 AM.
I count sheep in hex...
Well i must have hit a brick wall of a limiter somwhere lol. Last night i made a freeway run in 3rd, felt great! then about 6k it noses over like the throttle closes (wasnt logging then) so i thought id be cute this morning and log it and have the wide band turned on now to try and capture the event.
So this time in second, just north of 6k same thing nose over! i let off and got back into it, this time the engine just sat there stunned almost and wouldnt do shit! Then the lights came, service TCS, service Power steering, flashing check engine light lol. I thought for sure i blew it up! i continued on my way to work the check engine light stopped flashing and the car was running normal again. All seems ok, pending codes where PO300 which is from the random misfire event that caused the flashing CEL and P0324 knock sensor??? wtf?
Anyway i think ill go back to my intermediate tune on 16 psi that felt pretty decent and i had none of these issues lol.
Is it possible to bang off like a 1514 type scenario up high like that? it didnt even go into REP though... idk... all that was running through my mind was where am i going to find a junkyard take out engine lol
2007 Suburban - Slammed, Cammed, Geared and Stalled.
it is likely that P0300 and P0324 are related. It's funny becuase in my stock Cruze tune P0324 is set to No Error Reported.
Could be a bad knock sensor.
There are a lot of things you can log to determine the cause of the throttle closing.
- ETC Source
- Predicted Axl Tq Src
- Predicted Eng Tq Src
etc.
I count sheep in hex...
ah ok. So on the E78 that value is actually a blend factor between current and predicted airmass. On the E38 its actually a spark axis g/cyl scaler.no, i need to fix the name and description for this value
The ECM calculates the current airmass and two predicted airmasses (for the next ref count and also 2 ref counts ahead) and this is a blend factor of them that is used for the spark axis airmass. It doesn't reduce or increase the spark axis airmass. It effectively determines how far "ahead" in the airmass predictions the spark airmass is taken.
eg.
if this value is 0, spark airmass = current airmass
if this value is 1.0, spark airmass = predicted next ref airmass
if this value is 2.0, spark airmass = predicted next two refs airmass
any value in between is a blend.
0.75 means spark airmass = current airmass + 0.75 * (predicted next ref airmass - current airmass)
One other thing i noticed is that the Dynamic Airflow - High RPM Disable is set to 7,000rpm. Doesn that mean the MAF is not used at all?
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