i was looking at the '09 and '10 gmpp tunes there are a few other differences besides the cam timing, the main spark tables differ from eachother and are slightly different between the 09 and 10, the fuel pressure tables and injector tables are different. optimum spark tables in max ex max are different. anyone have a copy of the 08 files to compare?
'09 cobalt ss. hahn intercooler, intake, cp,catless downpipe, ottp stage 2 mounts, hptuners, gmpp 3bar tmap sensors, hybrid hp tuned
I noticed the optimum spark tables are different '08 to '09, The '08's run more up top. I'll get a screeny. Just this one table that I found. '08 is on the left.
Last edited by Iam Broke; 03-27-2011 at 08:38 AM.
'12 Camaro T3 2SS/RS LS3 M6, SLP TVS 2300, Flex Fuel
here is the '10. i also noticed the '10 desired fuel pressure table goes to 6000rpm 7000 rpm being the max and the '09 last two tables are at 5500rpm 6000 is the max. there anyway to add this to the '09 tune if running up tp 7000rpm redline?
Last edited by '09SS; 03-27-2011 at 09:14 AM.
'09 cobalt ss. hahn intercooler, intake, cp,catless downpipe, ottp stage 2 mounts, hptuners, gmpp 3bar tmap sensors, hybrid hp tuned
Sometimes it'll let you change the column & rows on the headers if you click them to open up the fields.
'12 Camaro T3 2SS/RS LS3 M6, SLP TVS 2300, Flex Fuel
You can change them on those tables
From my dyno session with Full E85.... Im replacing my in tank pump. Officially not buying it keeping up. Not only was the IDC climbing but the Fuel Pressure was dropping. Anytime Ive seen this in the past, we replace the in tank pump. I get the high pressure pump delivery, but that seems fine. It seems on quick hits the in tank pump cant supply the HPFP fast enough.
I figured you see a droop once you got the full E85 in her. I was thinking a LP fuel accumulator may help. That tiny tank in front of the HPFP is a joke. You said you had a Walbro for the tank? Please let us know how it goes.
The thing that bothers me if ZZP can make 500 hp on the stock tank pump with additional injectors, then it must be the HPFP, no? IDK if they upgraded the in tank pump or not. I started a HPFP thread on CSS this morning.
'12 Camaro T3 2SS/RS LS3 M6, SLP TVS 2300, Flex Fuel
I tried rolling on the boost very slowly, 15psi then ramped it up to 25-26 after 4500rpm. That was the best run I had, 336whp and 37x wtq (i forget now, but I have the graph in the car). You can see the pump is fine, then runs short a bit, then catches back up. The IDC never went over 45% but it still wasn't enough there for sure. It felt better on the street the day before, always at the dyno the gremlins hit ya lol.. All part of the fun
But yes, today we will be installing a 255 to test out for shits n giggles. I have 2 spare ones for my other car sitting here, shouldnt take long to throw it in and take it for a ride. I have plenty of E85 now lol.
Cold start ftl tho.. Car did not like the 17* outside last night lol..
That's where the injector constant and fuel mass changes help. Someone with brains needs to figure out the inj constant for E85. Would we add 30% or reduce it?Originally Posted by BackyardTurbo_FTW
I tried rolling on the boost very slowly, 15psi then ramped it up to 25-26 after 4500rpm. That was the best run I had, 336whp and 37x wtq (i forget now, but I have the graph in the car). You can see the pump is fine, then runs short a bit, then catches back up. The IDC never went over 45% but it still wasn't enough there for sure. It felt better on the street the day before, always at the dyno the gremlins hit ya lol.. All part of the fun
But yes, today we will be installing a 255 to test out for shits n giggles. I have 2 spare ones for my other car sitting here, shouldnt take long to throw it in and take it for a ride. I have plenty of E85 now lol.
Cold start ftl tho.. Car did not like the 17* outside last night lol..
When I had the Inj compensation on the TF layer it helped the cold starts a lot. Try a double prime next time. Key on, key off, key on then start.
Down side of changing the inj constant is the DIC will display MPG's 30% high on the inst and avg over actual. The compensation doesn't get passed along to the BCM.
I was really afraid you would have fueling issues as I did. No point to decreasing power to run full E85 IMO.
Last edited by Iam Broke; 03-27-2011 at 01:13 PM.
'12 Camaro T3 2SS/RS LS3 M6, SLP TVS 2300, Flex Fuel
FWIW,
Running 1:1 E blend, I noticed no difference in performance, IDC or IPW by lengthening the injection window via the HOM single table. Wasn't sure if I would or not but for me, nada.
Messing with boost control now to make things a bit smoother for myself.
Last edited by T-Man; 03-27-2011 at 02:28 PM.
09 RY Cobalt SS Coupe - 19K miles - Bolt ons + 7163 ZFR, HP tuned on ethanol
Sold - 09 SRTC Cobalt SS Sedan
Totaled - 09 VR Cobalt SS Sedan
Sold - 09 RY Cobalt SS Sedan
OK, I just realized something that may be obvious to some, but I hadn't thought of yet...
Look at the cam timing tables compared to the inj timing tables. When I first started looking at the inj timing I was thinking "I wonder what effects the cam timing changes I've made in my tune must have on inj timing?" So this morning I'm looking at the inj timing tables and notice that there's a pretty big retard section down low. So I pull open the cam tables and guess what? Injection timing is retarded to work with the retarded cam timing. DUH!
So here are my theories. I'm sitting in my recliner so I haven't even gone out and loaded these ideas into my car yet! And in the spirit of sharing, I'm going to post screen shots of my cam tables. I've only shared these tables with 2 other people. I feel these are some of the best DRIVABILITY cam tables I've done. Use them at your own risk, but be careful of the midrange torque improvement! And if you take these, tell everyone they're your discoveries and use them to make money selling more tunes (Yes, I've already had someone do that), just remember, Karma's a bitch!
So what I'm thinking will need to be done to make these cam tables work even better is making sure the inj timing is also advanced to match up better with the valve events. Ign timing has also been increased, so imagine this, all the events happening at the right times! Wow!
So here's the second part of the double light bulb over my head...
Decel. With larger exhausts, decel burbling and backfiring is more noticeable. I've reduced this a ton with maf compensation in the decel cells, richening up the decel. If you experiment and go super lean on the decel area maf correction cells, you will see massive backfiring due to being too lean. If you go rich on those cells, you will have a much cleaner decel, just don't go too far.
Sooo, my theory is... Look at the inj timing in the decel areas, it's super retarded. Is this for emissions? Prolly. What effect would advancing inj timing have on the decel? IDK because I'm sitting on my butt and not experimenting right now! And I'm going away for a few days and driving our Caddy, not the Sky, so I won't be able to play for awhile. So it's up to you guys to experiment! The other factor on decel is we have no control over DFCO or regular decel ign timing, it goes super retarded. If we could advance ign timing on decel it would definitely make these motors decel smoother.
Have fun and let me know what you find.
Stock tables...
Modified cam tables... you can see what tables I've modified, too many to post pics of. Basically make sure idle to running tables are a smooth transition and all tables (cold, knock, etc) are the same.
I've been running your somewhat tamer cam tables for a while now, the ones you posted above really killed my cruise MPG for a DD. I have to get my Boost & DAL's in order before I start on anything else.
'12 Camaro T3 2SS/RS LS3 M6, SLP TVS 2300, Flex Fuel
And it probably wouldn't as you never ran out of injection window before on 1:1, try going to E85 and it will improve until/if you run out of fuel.
'12 Camaro T3 2SS/RS LS3 M6, SLP TVS 2300, Flex Fuel
Yeah, I should have warned people that mileage WILL go down with these cam settings, but midrange torque and response WILL go up.
So I just went for a drive, ran so good I thought I'd try an NLS 1-2, haven't done that in awhile. Slammed 2nd and the clutch said Uh Oh, too much for me! Completely let loose and no way was gonna grab. I let off immediately so I doubt I did any permanent damage, but no more NLS on this car. I'm happy the clutch just let loose instead of leaving some rear end parts on the road!
Hey Tom, I noticed something when I was driving my car on the freeway, mileage seemed to go up and also didn't seem to have that really big drop from cruising at 60 to 75mph. I'm wondering if injection timing might help on this? You're the one that does a ton of freeway commuting, maybe you can try something. Try using my cam tables like the ones I just posted, along with advancing the inj timing around freeway cruise areas. Drive it that way for a couple days and see what happens. Just a thought, not sure if what I was seeing was really something or not, I only drove on the freeway for a little while, and I was just going by the inst fuel readings anyway, not too scientific.
Last edited by gmtech16450yz; 03-27-2011 at 05:32 PM.
I remembered some over on the other site stating that there may be some benefit to it while running either gasoline or E blend. Thought I'd give it a try and find out.
John,
Nice work on the injection timing/cam tables idea/theory. Something to definitely play around with.
09 RY Cobalt SS Coupe - 19K miles - Bolt ons + 7163 ZFR, HP tuned on ethanol
Sold - 09 SRTC Cobalt SS Sedan
Totaled - 09 VR Cobalt SS Sedan
Sold - 09 RY Cobalt SS Sedan
Out of curiousity, has anyone worked on a solid road racing tune? Boosting to 20+ PSI makes the car far too hot when doing more than a few short laps. I've considered going up to 18psi or so and holding it through redline for a nice and predictable torque curve, as well as the usual fuel and ignition timing adjustments. It also looks like the cam profile GMTech just posted would be perfect for the track where you want some mid range punch and the MPG doesn't matter nearly as much.
My car also doesn't boost nearly as easily as most of yours do, I have to jack my DALs through the roof to break 21psi. On a high boost street tune it makes the boost a bit hard to control since half pedal is 20psi and feels like WOT.
Any thoughts?
Last edited by fr0stb1t3; 03-27-2011 at 05:45 PM.
You could try limiting the boost vs. RPM by tapering the Duty Cycle Correction table in the midrange as John does. I haven't gotten that far myself, no time to play today, maybe tomorrow.
'12 Camaro T3 2SS/RS LS3 M6, SLP TVS 2300, Flex Fuel
I have a tune that I've been using on track. I had to dial the timing and boost down to more reasonable levels, but still higher than GMS1. I would not advise going any higher than 14-15* on top for timing. Going lap after lap is nothing like a dyno pull or running on a highway. I max around 20-21 psi, and I try to keep it from spiking, and I taper it off hard after 6k, so that I can still NLS. I keep the stock IAT too, because I want the car to be consistent lap after lap, corner after corner. This is more important than trying to squeeze out an extra few hp.
I still have to splash in 2-3 gallons of 100 octane to shut up the KR, even with a max of 15*.
Last edited by Wangspeed; 03-27-2011 at 06:04 PM.
Well, my company left for the day so I went for a spin. Attached find a 4.5 sec 60-100, the WG Duty cycle still has a cap on it someplace as hilighted in the screencap. This is with all available tables at 100% up top. The TF layer file holds it at 95% when it's below setpoint leading me to believe there is more hidden in there someplace.
The boost overshot, drooped than started to recover before the WG DC tapered off up top.
Granted I need to smooth it out but it'd be nice to get the last 20% out of the WG DC. DAL's still ramp up to 280 in the high rpm area so it should be calling for more.
'12 Camaro T3 2SS/RS LS3 M6, SLP TVS 2300, Flex Fuel
Well, my company left for the day so I went for a spin. Attached find a 4.5 sec 60-100, the WG Duty cycle still has a cap on it someplace as hilighted in the screencap. This is with all available tables at 100% up top. Gotta be more in there someplace.
The boost overshot, drooped than started to recover before the WG DC tapered off up top.
Granted I need to smooth it out but it'd be nice to get the last 20% out of the WG DC. DAL's still ramp up to 280 in the high rpm area so it should be calling for more.
Anyone getting 95% or higher up top?
'12 Camaro T3 2SS/RS LS3 M6, SLP TVS 2300, Flex Fuel
I'm having a real hard time with all thisMy brain just isn't working today.
I spiked 27-ish psi ona 3rd gear pull from about 40 mph and then it settled at 24ish... the car actually felt worse so I reloaded my previous tune. I need to work my fuel trims and timing some more before I keep going... I was trying the fuel settings and such that gmtech posted and I don't think I can start there. I'm gonna have to tweek this differently for my car.
I'm gonna wait until someone else figures something out before I experiment anymore.
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