Can I change my DHP parameters

[The_Highlander]

The point is not to argue about the pricing of HPtuners stuff we are just using this site as an example.. so dont get me wrong Gameover.. but its like mr beyer said...

The site shouldn't condone the hacking with your tool any PCM from anyone who is making a business for it... It degrades the business it degrades the society(and whoever doesn't think so... GFY).

Piracy is sometimes a need regarding certain HUGELY EXPENSIVE SOFTWARE.. but modding a car is not a need.. its a comodity or a pleasure.. Pleasures should be payed...

Heck I wish hptuners was free... but.. the reality is.. if it where there will be NO advancement to what has been done, nor any prod.. and a Thank you will not put dinner on the ones who have worked for anything in their table at night which is why I hate when people steal from somebody elses hardwork, with little return.

There has always been many people that contribute in a lot of ways just to be ignored in the end and ideas and softwares stolen

Someone who pays for headers and doesn't want to pay for programming needed, its like Telling holly that the jets for their carbs should be ALL Free to anyone who has a carb and such...

YOu guys get the idea

[Chris@HPTuners]

we do not condone the practice and there are ways to protect things, in fact we have already been asked to provide such a feature from a number of tuners already. Although given the nature of the hardware devices used it is impossible to totally protect things...

What would you rather have? encrypted bins or a better security solution? How many crazy posts on the topic of encrypted bins have there been on how many forums and mailing lists??? If the price we have to pay to have unencrypted bins is that we need to get smarter to help tuners and mail order guys protect their hard work and countless hours dyno tuning then IMHO that is a good thing. I'm very open to opinions on that - i'm sure no one wants to see a HPTuners release with encrypted binaries?

Personally i have spent countless hours developing my understanding of the code and where things are and what they do. I have no problems selling you the tools to take all my hard work and find the locations of the various things with your favorite hex editor or whatever... like i said in the other post, it's one thing to have the knowledge to do something and it's another thing to actually do it so everyone can understand and use it...

[The_Highlander]

Exactly and I agree with you.. which was the reason why a custom seed/key thing was such a great add on a feature which has been turned down by you guys.. that way if I make a tune I can have my very own and personal USERNAME and PASSWORD that not even gm can decode via class 2 messages.. who ever REALLY wants to do it.. will open the PCM and that is it.. simple as that.. a change in seed/key algo.. but as I said.. it has been turned down by hptuners before...

What better way you have? NONE! forget encryption.. it just adds time and problems and things CANT be corrected if a problem arises.. making you loose countless hours of "tunning" because you cant traspas it or anything... Besides.. encrypted or not.. if you can open it via your program is not safe anyways because I can still compare it to other bins and see what changes were done... I dont need to know where the timing table is when all I want to know is how was it modified to increase power

If the tool works flawlessly I doubt that people will try to dissasemble your work...

I know of noone that has tried to steal the TunerCats definition files nad they have their own program that can do it

As a matter of fact.. I love tunercat so much, because I use TCs Editor and/or tunner with my own developed calibrations for all ls1s and trucks... All I need is a full read and flasher and Im done... As for now I can write certain things.. but not all.. and am having some problems with the checksums.. but that is alright.. im getting there... This will not be available for the public as I need it for myself perse...

The point is that if you make a TOOL.. it can be used for almost anything.. if you make a program that solely works for your converter then its stuck on many feautures.. adaptability is always great

Again.. you want to protect peoples bins and programs? custom seed/keys... really... This has been a great idea from me for a long time wether you want to admit it or not.. do it and it will attract more tunners to your cause.

[Chris@HPTuners]

it is coming my friend (not in the first release but shortly thereafter due to testing requirements) ;D

I'd like to know anyone else's opinion on this feature... some questions i have: what if you want to change tuners? They would have to get you to flash it back to stock, i guess thats okay... if the car will run

[The_Highlander]

Exactly...

you can tell them to put it back to stock... and back where we started

That way for instance:

I can take my car for repairs and reprogram a valet tune... no more than 2300rpm and 65mph right... on the dealer they cant put an update on it or anything since they will NOT be able to flash it, etc etc etc... it cant be read by any other edit also.

[beyerch]

Well I'm glad to hear that you are willing to protect others work; however, I had an interesting conversation one day with one of you about this and was told that your software can read our stuff 'piece of cake'. That was anything but reassuring to me.

However, there is an EASY way for you to make sure that end users can't just take our stuff with your cable. If you would like to discuss that would be greatly appreciated. you can email me at [email protected]

thanks

[Keith@HPTuners]

We've already discussed this Charles and we both know what can and can't be done. Neither of us support theft. Lets not drag that convo onto the forum. Thanks.

[The_Highlander]

I take it you guys know each other ...

[The_Grinch]

Whatever is decided, let's be careful. The PCM belongs to the vehicle owner, the internal software/firmware/whatever is GM's, and only the modified parameters belong to DHP. With that said, I don't believe you can "copyright" a parameter, and hptuners should not be under any obligation to protect it. I am not saying that anyone should be allowed to copy the PCM for their friends (or resell it) at DHP's expense. That is definately wrong and dishonest. What I am saying is that you can not completely lock someone out of their PCM because the parameters came from DHP. Because if that's the case, DHP had better be willing to reset the PCM's they sold back to factory defaults at no charge.

[The_Highlander]

Who said DHP wont do that?

THe point is that many people CANT TUNE and might use this kind of tool to copy ones tune into another car...

That is basically whats being said or at least trying to...

[DARKSDE02]

Isn't that why they made it so open in the first place? So tuners could share files with each other? I know when I finally get to order mine everyone with a 2002 V6 F-body will be my bestest friend and want me to flash their PCMs with one of my custom tunes. The only problem I could possibly forsee for not making the software locked for one VIN is that HP Tuners might lose sales in the long run because people are sharing their tuner with other's with the same year/make of car.

As for the DHP parameters, that's their tune that they sell for profit, it shouldn't be copied and given away freely to the masses, but that's not HP Tuner's responsibility! Chances are with a good editor anyone could unintentionally mimic DHP's tunes anyways. I say if they have issues with people copying their PCMs they should add their own safeguards to prevent it and not ask another company to do it for them.

[beyerch]

As for the DHP parameters, that's their tune that they sell for profit, it shouldn't be copied and given away freely to the masses, but that's not HP Tuner's responsibility! Chances are with a good editor anyone could unintentionally mimic DHP's tunes anyways. I say if they have issues with people copying their PCMs they should add their own safeguards to prevent it and not ask another company to do it for them.

Actually, I have(put countermeasures in the pcms); however, one of the hp tuners team got mad at me slightly for doing that..... ???

The only reason i brought it up here was that another member of the team said that they do not support such acts and that they'd be willing to discuss; therefore, I posted it.

As far as randomly duplicating what we do allow me to point out that in the 98 pcm alone there are 3707 variables in the code. Do we change all 3707, nope. However, I can assure you we change a lot of those and many of these values are 3 or 4 digit precision after the decimal point. Proving what is copied will not be hard at all. Secondly, we watermark our files and if someone is copying bins completely, we'll know that too.

As I said earlier however, we will have a product (beta now) that will allow the proper owner to update and modify their dhp while still protecting our code from being copied.

I'm ALL FOR the proper people being able to update THEIR pcm; however, i'm cool with someone just reading any binary and freely distributing it.

$.02