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Thread: Timing Calculator how to

  1. #21
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    I apply the table to the pilot tables as well. The pilots are active through most of your low speed driving, to maximize your economy I modify these tables also just as shown by the highlighting for lmm. You do not have to perform this if you dont want too, just modify the tables labeled default. Just to clarify, the tables labeled pilot that I have highlighted are not pilot timing injection tables. They are the main pulse injection timing tables for when pilot injection is active.

    I would like to see this other write up, can you pm it to me or post it up?

  2. #22
    Advanced Tuner WS6HUMMER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mecanicman View Post
    I apply the table to the pilot tables as well. The pilots are active through most of your low speed driving, to maximize your economy I modify these tables also just as shown by the highlighting for lmm. You do not have to perform this if you dont want too, just modify the tables labeled default. Just to clarify, the tables labeled pilot that I have highlighted are not pilot timing injection tables. They are the main pulse injection timing tables for when pilot injection is active.

    I would like to see this other write up, can you pm it to me or post it up?
    OK, thanks for explaining.
    99 T/A WS6, original LS1 turbo

  3. #23
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    So all else stock on say a LLY, how much horsepower will going to this 50/50 tune add? I just want to make sure I'm not going to hurt my transmission!

  4. #24
    I just finished working on an 07 LMM using the calculator here along with the procedure from Roger Ramjet. The truck seems to be running great. I want to set up a scanner file for the LMM, but would like some insight on which pid's would be advantageous to use.

    Again, thanks for your hard work.

  5. #25
    Advanced Tuner ajamesbond007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LS6FD View Post
    So all else stock on say a LLY, how much horsepower will going to this 50/50 tune add? I just want to make sure I'm not going to hurt my transmission!
    If you are using stock pulse width tables, you aren't going to gain enough horsepower to hurt anything. Usually anything over 20% increase in puslewidth with the timing calculator is when you start needing to start saving for a built trans.
    55/45 --> great for fuel economy. Will make the engine run louder, but nothing crazy.
    50/50 --> good split between economy and power. Usually save this for my 45-75 mm3 values
    40/60 --> great power.
    Andrew

    2006 Duramax ECSB - Banks Monster Dual Exhaust, Tie Rod Sleeves, Kennedy Twin Deluxe Lift Pumps, Edge Insight CTS with Pryo, EGR Blocker Plate, PVC Reroute, Suncoast Stage 5 trans with 1056 triple disk converter, Cognito Steering Braces, PPE Race Valve, LML driver side exhaust manifold, AFE Boost Tube, Stock Drop-in BatMoWheel, ProFab Performance 3" Downpipe, Other mods along the way, TUNED by ME... Way too much fun

  6. #26
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    Where Do Find Timing Tabe

  7. #27
    Advanced Tuner axekick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Ramjet View Post
    I am working on a LBZ tune. The owner asked for cruise mileage and lots of full throttle power. With that in mind and your post, mecanicman, you inspired me to make a change to your Excel file. I expanded the % input cell on the upper left to 3 cells with corresponding colored areas in the power band. Here is the result.
    I'm not totally sure, but I think the lookup for the pulsewidth might be off in the calculations on this table. I may be wrong in which case I should have kept my thoughts to myself until I investigate further. Check the first modified cell, i.e. 20 mm^3 and 1400 rpm and let me know if I'm wrong.
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  8. #28
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    I am ready to get going on my tune using this calculator. Are there any other areas of the tune I should look in to? Trans tables, tcc lock up anything like that? Also what about base fuel pressures, ect. Also when you use the calculator and we are talking about a 55/45 split, i am assuming you put 55 in the spread sheet to calculate everything? Sorry for all the questions, just want to feel comfortable with everything before I go at it! Thanks for all the great info so far!!

  9. #29
    Advanced Tuner ajamesbond007's Avatar
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    Yes, put 55 in the calculator up at the top to give you a 55/45 timing. Then 50 for 50/50, and so on. To start out, leave the trans alone, get a grasp of what's going on with the engine, and once you know what you are doing, then you can play with the Trans. Take heed tho, the engine is way more tolerant of mess ups or bad tunes than the Allison is. She can be finicky
    Andrew

    2006 Duramax ECSB - Banks Monster Dual Exhaust, Tie Rod Sleeves, Kennedy Twin Deluxe Lift Pumps, Edge Insight CTS with Pryo, EGR Blocker Plate, PVC Reroute, Suncoast Stage 5 trans with 1056 triple disk converter, Cognito Steering Braces, PPE Race Valve, LML driver side exhaust manifold, AFE Boost Tube, Stock Drop-in BatMoWheel, ProFab Performance 3" Downpipe, Other mods along the way, TUNED by ME... Way too much fun

  10. #30
    What are everyone's thoughts on going through after using the calculator and putting the timing back to stock (comparing the altered table to stock) in cells where the calculator would have wound up lowering the timing???

    Is that clear enough to understand? Lol

    Owner/Tuner Street Performance Syndicate

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  11. #31
    Advanced Tuner ajamesbond007's Avatar
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    The dyno would be the best way to figure out what timing values made the most torque... sadly since I don't have one, I just use the timing calculator as is. Either way, wouldn't hurt your engine since the Stock values run with more timing, so its something you can think about!
    Andrew

    2006 Duramax ECSB - Banks Monster Dual Exhaust, Tie Rod Sleeves, Kennedy Twin Deluxe Lift Pumps, Edge Insight CTS with Pryo, EGR Blocker Plate, PVC Reroute, Suncoast Stage 5 trans with 1056 triple disk converter, Cognito Steering Braces, PPE Race Valve, LML driver side exhaust manifold, AFE Boost Tube, Stock Drop-in BatMoWheel, ProFab Performance 3" Downpipe, Other mods along the way, TUNED by ME... Way too much fun

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by ajamesbond007 View Post
    The dyno would be the best way to figure out what timing values made the most torque... sadly since I don't have one, I just use the timing calculator as is. Either way, wouldn't hurt your engine since the Stock values run with more timing, so its something you can think about!
    I am dynoless as well! And that was the way I was thinking about it, I just did not want to hurt the mileage of the cells that were advanced around it or anything. The customer wanted a good mileage tune down lower and more power up top, so I followed the calculator's instructions to the TEE and hopefully that will get er dun.

    This is on an LMM and it is my first diesel tune

    Owner/Tuner Street Performance Syndicate

    06 GTO: D1SC , Full Suspension, 23X .6xx lift Ed Curtis Cam, Mast Heads, Gforce 9" 4.11 Gears, Holley High Rise, Stage 12 Fuel System, Boost By Gear

    01 Duramax: Blown Tranny (again) BWs467 Turbo, Head Studs, Exergy Injectors, Lift Pump, Moonshine
    2014 Taurus SHO: (Wife's Car) OR DPs, Tuned, CAI
    2006 TBSS; AWD SLP Catback, K&N CAI, Tuned

  13. #33
    I am surprised that nobody else noticed that before me, or at least nobody posted it up yet.

    Owner/Tuner Street Performance Syndicate

    06 GTO: D1SC , Full Suspension, 23X .6xx lift Ed Curtis Cam, Mast Heads, Gforce 9" 4.11 Gears, Holley High Rise, Stage 12 Fuel System, Boost By Gear

    01 Duramax: Blown Tranny (again) BWs467 Turbo, Head Studs, Exergy Injectors, Lift Pump, Moonshine
    2014 Taurus SHO: (Wife's Car) OR DPs, Tuned, CAI
    2006 TBSS; AWD SLP Catback, K&N CAI, Tuned

  14. #34
    Advanced Tuner ajamesbond007's Avatar
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    I've noticed it big time in my cruise areas. Personally, I think that lowering the timing to the calculator's value will give better mileage in the end. Stock values are higher for various reasons such as emissions, noise and vibration, etc. Stock values run quieter than my 55/45 timing. If we can reduce timing and gain power, obviously its a no brainer, but I can't compare without the dyno, which stinks. However, most tuners that have a dyno say right around 55/45 split is best economy, 50/50 is your best compromise for econ and power, and 40/60 is your best power. Glad you are doing it right and using the calculator for your first tune. Good luck!
    Andrew

    2006 Duramax ECSB - Banks Monster Dual Exhaust, Tie Rod Sleeves, Kennedy Twin Deluxe Lift Pumps, Edge Insight CTS with Pryo, EGR Blocker Plate, PVC Reroute, Suncoast Stage 5 trans with 1056 triple disk converter, Cognito Steering Braces, PPE Race Valve, LML driver side exhaust manifold, AFE Boost Tube, Stock Drop-in BatMoWheel, ProFab Performance 3" Downpipe, Other mods along the way, TUNED by ME... Way too much fun

  15. #35
    In some cases it was like 15* of timing lower though, so I just went with stock. I will see how if feels and go off the old butt dyno I guess. lol And watch the mpgs and experiment. It should not hurt anything though cux its still stock in those areas, I was under the impression that the more timing you can run, the better mileage you will have. That is generally how it is on gas motors, the 2004 GTOs actually have a function in the ecu for it... And I have been lurking in diesel forums and it is my opinion that there are a lor of mis informed diesel enthusiasts out there. Lol "Twins" that are not even close to the same turbo and such.

    Owner/Tuner Street Performance Syndicate

    06 GTO: D1SC , Full Suspension, 23X .6xx lift Ed Curtis Cam, Mast Heads, Gforce 9" 4.11 Gears, Holley High Rise, Stage 12 Fuel System, Boost By Gear

    01 Duramax: Blown Tranny (again) BWs467 Turbo, Head Studs, Exergy Injectors, Lift Pump, Moonshine
    2014 Taurus SHO: (Wife's Car) OR DPs, Tuned, CAI
    2006 TBSS; AWD SLP Catback, K&N CAI, Tuned

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by posenheimer View Post
    I am surprised that nobody else noticed that before me, or at least nobody posted it up yet.
    You didnt read far enough I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by apex2112 View Post
    In a log I did with the old tune at say 3000 rpm and 89 mm3 I see 16° main injection timing but when looking at new timing tune at that area of the timing table it would be 14°
    Quote Originally Posted by mecanicman View Post
    You were concerned about less timing. To clarify, the calculator is achieving a specific amount of fuel before and after top dead center(tdc). So, in the fuel economy area any time the truck is in those cells 55% of the fuel is going in before the the piston hits tdc and igniting with compression ignition. 45% continues to be put in after ignition and increases cylinder pressure. You are maintaining this ratio of fuel distribution thru this range.
    Dont confuse gasoline ignition timing with diesel injection timing, two very different concepts. Ignition timing compensates for the fixed burn rate of fuel with the changing speed of the engine. Injection timing is the start of adding fuel in relation to piston tdc.

  17. #37
    So I should just use what the calculator said I should have then. I understand now. I will alter the tune back to the way that the calculator was intended to be used. I did do the Fade to more power tendency up top and better fuel economy down low technique, but I will change it up to the way it should be.

    Thanks btw.

    Owner/Tuner Street Performance Syndicate

    06 GTO: D1SC , Full Suspension, 23X .6xx lift Ed Curtis Cam, Mast Heads, Gforce 9" 4.11 Gears, Holley High Rise, Stage 12 Fuel System, Boost By Gear

    01 Duramax: Blown Tranny (again) BWs467 Turbo, Head Studs, Exergy Injectors, Lift Pump, Moonshine
    2014 Taurus SHO: (Wife's Car) OR DPs, Tuned, CAI
    2006 TBSS; AWD SLP Catback, K&N CAI, Tuned

  18. #38
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    As 007 said, adding the timing will not hurt. I suggest you play with it and see what works best for you.

  19. #39
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    just ordered a pyro with outputs for the EIO, can't wait to get the credits and exhaust to try my first diesel. I tow 11K enclosed trailer, would you start with 50/50?

  20. #40
    Advanced Tuner ajamesbond007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walterdy View Post
    just ordered a pyro with outputs for the EIO, can't wait to get the credits and exhaust to try my first diesel. I tow 11K enclosed trailer, would you start with 50/50?
    55/45 on mm3 values between 20-40; 50/50 on 40-60; and 40-60 on 60+
    Andrew

    2006 Duramax ECSB - Banks Monster Dual Exhaust, Tie Rod Sleeves, Kennedy Twin Deluxe Lift Pumps, Edge Insight CTS with Pryo, EGR Blocker Plate, PVC Reroute, Suncoast Stage 5 trans with 1056 triple disk converter, Cognito Steering Braces, PPE Race Valve, LML driver side exhaust manifold, AFE Boost Tube, Stock Drop-in BatMoWheel, ProFab Performance 3" Downpipe, Other mods along the way, TUNED by ME... Way too much fun