guys, i know exactly what the problem is. There are ways around it and EFI are using one way i have considered, however it is not perfect.
I have some ideas that will be tested once 2.24 is released.
guys, i know exactly what the problem is. There are ways around it and EFI are using one way i have considered, however it is not perfect.
I have some ideas that will be tested once 2.24 is released.
I count sheep in hex...
Chris you're AWESOME! Thanks man, we'll all appreciate anything you can do.Originally Posted by Chris@HPTuners
I wish I would have known you never got any Camaro reads, I could have gotten you some. I just worked on a V6 Camaro last week, all it had was a broken seat though so I wasn't even thinking about hooking up the laptop to it. The rental car company we use has a bunch of them, I could go over there and read a few if you need me to I guess.
I also don't quite understand why all these Camaro guys are asking for support, but when you get the ability to read out the ECM's and ask guys for reads you get none? Damn, I think I ran out and got a read on my CTS the minute I got the beta that could do it! I'm a little disappointed in my fellow HPT tuners for dropping the ball on that one. They should have rallied every V6 owner on the Camaro site to try to get reads for you or at least email or post and say they'd buy if there was support. Damn, I think there was a bunch of us LNF/Bosch E69 guys that were trying to send you money to get more tables weren't we?! You ended up giving us some VERY useful tables and we all were THRILLED!!!! Thank You again for those. Like I said, anything you can get us on ANY ECM or platform is greatly appreciated and hopefully backed up with license or hardware sales.
Come on Camaro guys, show them the money for cars you're gonna buy licenses or hardware for! Get them the reads they need! I know my measly one little license I'm gonna buy for my CTS isn't nearly enough to make it worth while for them, but if they had 100 guys that said they'd buy the day support is released, maybe that would help the progress.
BTW, on the LNF tables... With the addition of the new tables you gave us a few months ago I've personally gotten you guys over a half dozen new HPT converts. Without those tables, their only solution would be "that other guy" for tuning support and hardware. With HPT and those LNF tables, I've helped a bunch of guys get to 500~hp WITHOUT that "other" guy. One in particular is probably an easy 50hp over what he had him at, probably closer to a 100, and with a safer running motor. HPT FTW!!! (Oh and his cable from the "other" tuning company is for sale on one of the other forums!)
Last edited by gmtech16450yz; 09-05-2011 at 11:50 AM.
Just so you understand the current beta will not allow reading of the newer Camaro V6 pcm's, I have a list of people that have volunteered to do some testing for us once we have some time to work on it. As Chris eluded to this will not be until after 2.24 is released.
It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...
A wise man once said "google it"
I'll just add to this thread, 2.24 has been in the works for....... ages! Is there an actual ETA or will it be 2.23 beta forever?
Yeah me too... Nobody understands how hard your job is.From now on every time a car comes out that's even remotely cool or popular, you guys should support it within weeks. Forget about the evolving complexity of todays OBD and PCM functions. And please forget about the fact that you not only have to map out new OS's for new vehicles, but also new OS's you haven't seen yet that keep popping up from older vehicles on your supported vehicles list that you're more or less obligated to squeeze in. It's not like that's slowing down your progress or anything! Aren't you like Neo, where you just stare at code strings and can instantly tell how many and which ones pertain to TPS, VE or MAF? Heck even my grandma can do that.
Now if you're REALLY serious about getting HPT to support your car:
http://www.hptuners.com/employment/
Seriously though...
Luckly my car is covered. (early cavalier) Hate to look a gift horse in the mouth an all, but why am I so lucky that almost all early OBD2 G.M. cars are covered? Were all the PCM's and OS's alot more alike across the board (models/engines) back then? Was there some rainman type guy that was obsessed with mapping out early G.M.'s? Or were you trying to establish a broad base for product appeal/marketability? In other words, not to come out with something that just did Vette's only.
Last edited by Dr. Nopps; 09-08-2011 at 07:16 AM.
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...417#post250417
To give you an idea, when we released the early V8, V6 and I4 stuff, we supported maybe 10 PCM's for GM only. Currently we support around 40 controllers across 3 manufacturers.
Most of the early PCM's have 512k of total flash, with around 64kb of calibrations and maybe 300k of code that operated both the engine and transmission. The latest ECM's have 3Mb of flash, around 2.5Mb of code and around 400k of calibrations - that's just to operate the engine. The A6 TCMs have 2Mb flash about 1Mb of code and maybe 256k of calibrations, just the transmission. So you can see in the last 8-10 years we've gone up by a factor of 10 in flash size and probably more in complexity.
Actually the earlier PCM's code were a lot different as they were developed by seperate software teams within GM. The new tend to run similar code from a single development team just different spec hardware, faster cpu, more pins etc. Except for the Bosch controllers of course, which everyone should know were designed by mutant aliens and left on earth as a tribute to the chinese finger trap for the tuning market.
Why did we do all that early stuff? Because people asked for it, nobody else did it and it seemed there was a reasonable market. If we had our time over would we have said no to some of them? Probably yes. But hey we live and learn.
We will make these Bosch powered V6 Camaro's work, no doubt. If Bosch had kept to the script we would already support them. The 2012's are coming along nicely also.
Chris...
I count sheep in hex...
Thank you chris for sticking by the bosch and at least still giving us bosch cursed camaro, caddy, and pontiac guys some hope.
To the guy who asked "why are camaro guys asking for support" you are kidding me right? I would never sit here and ask why are the cadillac guys asking for support or why are the pontiac guys asking for support. When you make such a prejudice comment as why are camaro guys asking for support, all you are doing is making the bosch community as a whole suffer even more than we are. Do you even know how many of us V6 camaro guys has been looking for hp support in the past? Anyone that's been looking for bosch e69 support should be thanking GM for throwing the jail locked bosch on 10-11 v6 camaros instead of you asking questions like why are camaro guys asking for hp support? Because of the camaro guys now companies like HP and EFI has even bigger market to go after. No one over at camaro5 board or bowtiev6 have known anything about anybody requesting or looking for reads. Please come by the board and join one of the biggest V6 LLT community.
Reading comprehension fail dude. If you're talking about what I said, read it again.
I wasn't questioning why they were asking for support, I was wondering why if there's so many guys that want support, why did Chris and Bill get NO Camaro reads when they asked? If there is a ton of LLT guys on the Camaro forums that want support, they should probably spend a little time watching what's going on over here. I know I would. I have an LLT, I keep an eye on the Bosch E69 progress on here and on EFILive's forum. If they ask for help by sending them reads, I jump to help them, like I've already done. I did it on the LNF E69 also, when Chris gave us new tables and wanted to know how they were doing, I tried them all out as soon as I could. I let him know what issues I saw immediately. I even posted about guys that wanted more tables being willing to send money to Bill or Chris to help with the R&D. I put my money where my mouth is and didn't just ask for something without giving something in return. When the new LNF E69 tables came out, I spread the news and pushed the product for them. Bill said something about "now that we have the new tables, go out and put down some big numbers", or something like that. Hey Bill, the new LNF tables put me at about 500hp on a 2 liter 4 banger! THANKS!!!!! I mention on many forums, and often, that I wouldn't be there without the HPT tables. I just got an email from a guy that just sold his tuning hardware from another company because of what I told him about HPT and the LNF tables! He, and a bunch of others have switched to HPT and aren't going back! That's a direct result of HPT adding something we kept asking for. BTW Chris and Bill, if there's any doubt whether the time you spent giving us those tables was worth it, take a quick look on the Cobalt forum. There's guys over there jumping ship from that "other" tuning company to HPT. If you hadn't added those LNF tables, those guys WOULD NOT consider buying HPT over what they already have. Not sure if you see it in sales and licenses, but believe me, it brought you income.I also don't quite understand why all these Camaro guys are asking for support, but when you get the ability to read out the ECM's and ask guys for reads you get none?
My point was if there's all these guys that want support, where are they? They're not on here posting up a signup sheet or something that shows Bill and Chris EXACTLY how many paying customers there might be. As they've said, people are SAYING there's demand there, but they're having a hard time seeing it, or haven't seen it at all. Support HPTuners on here and everywhere else and maybe they'll support you a little more. Rally all those Camaro guys and give Chris and Bill some solid evidence that the time they'd have to spend on the Bosch E69 would be worth it.
Just a thought.
We didn't ask for any reads, we KNOW the software won't read them as it sits. Personally I don't like stirring people into a frenzy until I actually need to get something done. But I know I have several testers at my fingertips as we have alot of great and very helpful customers
In any event slow it down guys, no need to fight over the little stuff in life.
It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...
A wise man once said "google it"
Geez Bill, what took you so long to reply? lol.We didn't ask for any reads, we KNOW the software won't read them as it sits. Personally I don't like stirring people into a frenzy until I actually need to get something done. But I know I have several testers at my fingertips as we have alot of great and very helpful customers
In any event slow it down guys, no need to fight over the little stuff in life.
My bad, you guys actually DIDN'T ask for reads, like you said. I was confusing the Bosch support conversations on two different sites! Sucks getting old dammit! The "other" guys asked for E69 reads when they got the software to read but not edit. I gave them the E69 LLT read, not you guys, sorry everyone. Go on about your business, nothing to see here but an old guy with bad memory.
I still stand by what I wrote, except for my being mistaken about the reads. I always try to support any company I work with.
lol its all good
It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...
A wise man once said "google it"
If HP want to see how much interest there are just among 5th gen camaro V6 crowd please just give me the word and I will post up something on camaro5, modern camaro, and bowtie 6 to show you guys just how obsessed a camaro crowd can be when they find out there is a new product in the market that will give them a few hp. Just look at the vararam thread, 13hp trifecta thread, vmax ported tb thread, and the past HP threads. These type of posts go up to over 100k views just in couple months. These guys dont play games and I know plenty of folks who wont spend a dime until HP or someone come out with a better tuning program
One thing I will say is that I am hoping as much as anyone who are stalking HP for bosch e69 support, and to be honest with you.. after almost 3 years in production alot of the V6 camaro guys dont think HP will ever support the ecm, but there are still alot of us and like you(gmtech16450)that still have some hope so the only thing I can say is that we all need to stick together and show chris/bill and the whole HP community that bosch is still relevant and will be for years to come.
Thanks bill and chris for at least keeping the hope alive..somewhat
I've already said a few times now that it will happen after 2.24
I count sheep in hex...
I've already said a few times now that it will happen after 2.24Thank you SIR!! Only thing the camaro was missing
What car utilize 2.24?
Nuff said, Thanks Chris! I for one am not saying another word about E69 support until you have something you want us to try!I've already said a few times now that it will happen after 2.24
I was talking to another convert about switching to HPT and I told him that there was "no turning back" for him now... This morning he sent me this response to my comment...
Thanks again Chris and Bill. I'll shut up now.There was no turning back from the first time I logged (edit- I deleted this to protect the other competitors) tune with HPT...
Sorry, I can't shut up... I just solved the LLT support problem, at least for me. Just drove home a 2012 CTS-V Wagon!!! Black on black 6 speed auto. I'm pretty impressed so far with the shifting, WAY faster shifting manually than the V6 6 speed auto. Gotta open up the intake and the exhaust a little of course!
Sorry guys, the LLT is my brothers problem now since he's buying our '09 CTS. My problem will now be seeing what I'm gonna do with this LSA.
Now thats what you call a change. Congrad
2.24 ETA? What exactly is the delay on it..... We have a tonne of beta's, all of which are to add or change calibration stuff. You guys update the frameworks here and there in your software, but really what will be different about 2.24? .... anything or will it be exactly the same, just another update but just labelled 2.24?
Here is the email that I send out with the newest beta
This beta adds several new features for several platforms
Adds read support for most 2003-2006 NGC3 Dodge, Chrysler & Jeep platforms, we ask that you read as many of these vehicles and send us the .hpt file and an infolog while connected to each.
Adds support for interfaces starting with 116xxxxxxx
Firmware update for SPI chip id conflict
All platforms receive
New Editor code
New Scanner code with ability to scan most late model Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep applications
Net Framework 4.0 standards
Net Framework checks removed
Added read support for 97 Cutlass V6
Added read support for 2009 Ford Fseries Strategy TENF1
E67 code fix
2012 E38 Operating system fix
New operating systems supported
L4
16253010 16259676 12225336 12206016 9382944
9364978 12223048 9365314 9364968 9356822
16254760 16254761 16267102 16254731 12578877
9387547 12218880 12205378 9353697 9383067
9356827 9373182 9365340 12580032 9387552
1220464 12201231 9373161 16259650 12206031
16250926
P11
12583785 12218881
P12
12597424 12607148 12610643
97 V6
16257531 16253031 16243827 16254062
16265838 16252926 16255243
P04
9374770 9352742 9389353 9352757
12218400 12223490 12578500 12223490
12201687 12618883 9376662 9389259
12573407 12584933 12226103 12221348
12218171 12203659 12211256 12201870
9389700 9389351 12223440 12211252
12596603 12211496 12218411 12211488
12223436 12618881 9384035 12205332
12201881 9389680 12213452 9352617
12618861 9367747 12218860 9377380
9378072 9357027 9381810 12211506
12205339 12207433 9384017 16266347
12583371 9378077 12218853 9366323
9352803 12221678 9383308 12223495
12223435 9363607
P05
12581052 12619744 12635879 12585294
97 LS1 V8
16259806
98 LS1 V8
9355168
P59
12578128
E37
12610011 12618032 12635865 12628829
12630187 12628960 12628961 12635399
12639473
E38
12635859 12636005 12635863 12639835
12628982 12639270 12630465 12649046
12647991
E40
12593827
E55
55573067 55573114 12623990 12595778
92179468 12621961
E67
12636036 12639469 12635904 19211212
12638778 12618044 12632176 12639299
12630458 12615634 12630360
E69
12629314 12634286
E77
12616452
T43
24253414 24254909 24252573 24249179
24257135 24261871
T42
24243902 24252617 24252956 24243356
24256876
A40
15878459 25982141 24256578 24256580
Ford
HABND HABS2 HACCE HACCD
HADCD HADCE HADCK HAEDG
HAEDD HAEDH HAAMC HAAMF
HAAMG HACCK HACH3 HAAS2
HAAS4 HAAP9 HACHD HACHF
FBMR1 HACE8 HACE3 HAAT0
HAAT2 FPBF2 FBBT0 FBCE0
HAFDF HAFDJ HAFFA TENF1
FPBX1 FBCE2 FEBF1 HAEE4
FOAR0 OKCM7 FPASB TADP6
FBRE7 FBLF2 FSAEA HACF0
HAEE3 FBMMB HAAO8 FOASB
FBHR2 TAZP2
We've added so much stuff I had to break it up into 2 posts...
It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...
A wise man once said "google it"
