Tuning to Emulate a Manual Valve Body.

[MikerMiker]

I have a 2006 GTO that is setup for road racing/AutoX even tho it is an 4l65e.

No one makes a 4l65e manual valve body so is it possible to tune it so it never upshifts or downshifts unless the selector is moved? From the factory 1st never upshifts, and 2nd never upshifts or downshifts. 3rd acts like underdrive, and 4th is overdrive.

Also how should the torque converter lock be set for road racing?

[Montecarlodrag]

You can program the upshift points, both WOT and part throttle to very high MPH and RPM so it will never upshift.
Do the same to downshifts.

I don't know how this will work or if it can damage your transmission, but I think it's the only way to do it.

[MikerMiker]

You can program the upshift points, both WOT and part throttle to very high MPH and RPM so it will never upshift.
Do the same to downshifts.

I don't know how this will work or if it can damage your transmission, but I think it's the only way to do it.

That is what I was thinking but I wanted to see if anyone has done it or if any body at HPTuners had any warnings about it.

[Sharkey]

i do know of some ways to make a 4l60e a full manual with no computer hooked to it. one way is to install a transgo full manual shift kit, the other is toggle switches. the transgo kit would be the best, it uses a vacuum modulator so your not getting max line pressure shifts at less that WOT. it helps make it more streetable, however its still full manual all the time.

the toggle switch thing is quite easy. all you need to do is wire switches to the shift solenoids and know the shift pattern for them. for 1st gear, both solenoids are energized, for 2nd solenoid A is turned off, for 3rd solenoid B is turned off, and 4th solenoid A is turned back on. using this method, you would put the shifter in overdrive and manually click the switches, and it will hold each gear till you flip the switch. the downside to this is you have no line pressure control, so on the street its gonna shift very hard. this method is what gm used for the race version of the 4t65e behind the 1400hp ecotec pro fwd drag cars.

there may be a way to make the toggle switch method work while controlling line pressure and lockup functions by the computer. what might work is deleting the shift solenoid codes from the pcm (to prevent failsafe), unhooking the solenoids and running them off toggle switches. in theory this would leave the pcm controlling line pressure and you shift when you want. if you were really creative you may be able to have another switch to change back and forth from pcm control to toggle switch control over shifting.

[MikerMiker]

i do know of some ways to make a 4l60e a full manual with no computer hooked to it. one way is to install a transgo full manual shift kit, the other is toggle switches. the transgo kit would be the best, it uses a vacuum modulator so your not getting max line pressure shifts at less that WOT. it helps make it more streetable, however its still full manual all the time.

the toggle switch thing is quite easy. all you need to do is wire switches to the shift solenoids and know the shift pattern for them. for 1st gear, both solenoids are energized, for 2nd solenoid A is turned off, for 3rd solenoid B is turned off, and 4th solenoid A is turned back on. using this method, you would put the shifter in overdrive and manually click the switches, and it will hold each gear till you flip the switch. the downside to this is you have no line pressure control, so on the street its gonna shift very hard. this method is what gm used for the race version of the 4t65e behind the 1400hp ecotec pro fwd drag cars.

there may be a way to make the toggle switch method work while controlling line pressure and lockup functions by the computer. what might work is deleting the shift solenoid codes from the pcm (to prevent failsafe), unhooking the solenoids and running them off toggle switches. in theory this would leave the pcm controlling line pressure and you shift when you want. if you were really creative you may be able to have another switch to change back and forth from pcm control to toggle switch control over shifting.

My transmission guy told me about the transgo kit. Would I be able to keep cruise control working, have speedo working, cluster gear selection and no CELs?

The toggle switch method sound interesting tho. I can easily create some circuitry to control those solenoids off of some paddle shifters. The computer knows how long it takes to shift and whatnot so would manual control glitch anything?

[MikerMiker]

Can I disable to adaptive learning of shift times?

What do I need to do with the 3-2 smoothness solenoid.

[Sharkey]

from what my shop manual tells me the 3-2 downshift solenoid is only to prevent a bump on the 3-2 downshift, mostly a comfort thing. iirc in 2009 gm eliminated it.

the transgo kit is basicly for controlling the 4l60e without a computer at all. you can hook your speed sensor in the tailhousing up, that will give you a vss reading.

im not 100% sure how the computer would react to toggle switches. without modifying the calibration and code setting perametors it would set shift solenoid open/short codes at a minimum. the pcm trans adapts are adjusted based on shift time, how long it takes from the time the pcm commanded the shift till it saw the appropriate change in gear ratio (how it calculates that varies based on if your has an input speed sensor or not). the pcm adjusts the epc pressure during the shift to correct this. in theory what should happen is if the computer commands a shift and it doesnt happen (because you have toggle switches controlling the solenoids) it will drive the shift adapts up. however, my 8 years in the transmission industry, ive never once seen a 4l60e set a max shift adapt code, or even drive the adapts way up, even when its missing gears completely. what may happen though is it may set a shift solenoid performance code, again, something you may be able to disable. when doing this id recommend upping the epc pressure a bit, it will crisp up the shifts and you wouldnt really have to worry about the shift adapts. again, from what ive seen, on a 4l60e, they do very little.

keep in mind ive never tried this. ive never tuned a 4l60e, everything im going on is what ive read about and my own experience as a transmission diagnostician and builder

[04SilveradoMykk]

I ran a stock 4L60E as a manual shift trans using a B&M ratchet shifter, in the tune I had all the gears upshift & downshift between 3-5mph. That way the trans would just hang in every gear manually commanded. The shifting was a little harsh/rough and there was a slight delay between the rathet and the actual shift. I ran it this way until I rebuilt the trans and installed atransgo HD-3 manual shift kit.

I eventually ran the TCC on a toggle switch built into the shifter, the TCC was the only weird thing about the 'manual shift via tune' You just had to remember the turn it off before a downshift.

It worked, I ran it that way for a long time on the street and the track

[MikerMiker]

from what my shop manual tells me the 3-2 downshift solenoid is only to prevent a bump on the 3-2 downshift, mostly a comfort thing. iirc in 2009 gm eliminated it.

the transgo kit is basicly for controlling the 4l60e without a computer at all. you can hook your speed sensor in the tailhousing up, that will give you a vss reading.

im not 100% sure how the computer would react to toggle switches. without modifying the calibration and code setting perametors it would set shift solenoid open/short codes at a minimum. the pcm trans adapts are adjusted based on shift time, how long it takes from the time the pcm commanded the shift till it saw the appropriate change in gear ratio (how it calculates that varies based on if your has an input speed sensor or not). the pcm adjusts the epc pressure during the shift to correct this. in theory what should happen is if the computer commands a shift and it doesnt happen (because you have toggle switches controlling the solenoids) it will drive the shift adapts up. however, my 8 years in the transmission industry, ive never once seen a 4l60e set a max shift adapt code, or even drive the adapts way up, even when its missing gears completely. what may happen though is it may set a shift solenoid performance code, again, something you may be able to disable. when doing this id recommend upping the epc pressure a bit, it will crisp up the shifts and you wouldnt really have to worry about the shift adapts. again, from what ive seen, on a 4l60e, they do very little.

keep in mind ive never tried this. ive never tuned a 4l60e, everything im going on is what ive read about and my own experience as a transmission diagnostician and builder

The issue with the 3-2 is that the Computer will be commanding the transmission to shift. So what happens if the 3-2 solenoid is activated on a 3-4 upshift? I have a feeling I need to cut the 3-2 solenoid off from the computer too when it goes into manual mode.

Is there anyway to disable to adaptive function?

[jimmyblue]

Set your desired shift time to zero and you'll disable learning.

I question whether you -really- want a manual valve body,
or if you really just want the trans to do the right thing at
the right time. The latter just takes a lot of tweaking to
get things how you like it.

A full manual action, without the benefit of a controlled
clutch, might be a bad idea when cornering - jerk the
tires, say goodbye to adhesion. Maybe that's the point,
to prevent shifting in the corners. I dunno.

You might look at my repository tunes for an example of
how to set up part throttle shift tables and lockup for
more of an enthusiastic street setup (how that differs
from road course, I couldn't say).

[gman4dx266]

This is a big production but, I did something like this a few years ago in my truck with my 4l80. I downloaded a program called auto hotkey, and it basically records mouse clicks and keystrokes and replays them. They are stored in an exe executable file. I made 5 of them, one to click 1st gear to 4th gear in the scanner controls and one to turn on the converter lockup. I then made a batch file that would prompt you to enter a number 1 thru 5,which, when pressed would make the computer click the button to shift. Worked great. Just a dumb experiment was all it was, but it came in handy when my speed sensor failed and had me stuck in 2nd gear lol.

[MikerMiker]

Set your desired shift time to zero and you'll disable learning.

A full manual action, without the benefit of a controlled
clutch, might be a bad idea when cornering - jerk the
tires, say goodbye to adhesion. Maybe that's the point,
to prevent shifting in the corners. I dunno.

Thanks for answering about the learning.

The main thing is it is dangerous to have a car that will downshift when ever it wants mid corner. If I have control I can downshift in a straight line and not worry about downshifting mid corner.

[grizlbr1]

How to shift with switches wire both solenoids 1st gear both energized, for 2nd solenoid A OFF,
3R SOLINOID B OFF, 4TH A BACK ON. I am just trying to get another 1000 miles out of a have to drive in 3 4t65e. So are all the wires from the pressure switch assy inside the housing? If I were to just apply outside power using switches and cut A & B. Would the trans function manually except for error codes? Do I have to open the case to use the transgo vacuum modulator?