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Thread: 2002 Pontiac Bonneville SLE

  1. #1
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    2002 Pontiac Bonneville SLE

    I am not too experienced with this, but I have a mechanic who is. But he can't answer all of my questions:

    What I really want is second gear start. I have been searching for 6 months for a way to add the switch for that. I have inquired numerous times, and have had everyone send me to somewhere else, and then they say they can't do it and send me somewhere else. I want it for winter driving.

    I do NOT want any answers about alternate driving methods, tires, or the traction control (gives up and shuts itself off after 2 seconds in my gravel driveway with ice on it). I have already tried all of these, have the best tires for the job, and have determined that second gear start is what I need.

    A major part of the problem is that my city is "environmentally friendly," and does very little to remove ice after an ice storm. But I do need to be able to get to work reliably.

    Questions:

    1. Is second gear start really available for a 2002 Pontiac Bonneville SLE. If so, where do the switch and wires connect? Do not answer this question unless you know.

    2. Is there a separate shift table for each selector lever position? Or do they all work off the same table?

    3. Can first gear be left out (start in second) by changing the shift table?

    I want to leave the rest of the settings alone. If second gear start is not available, I am interested in changing the 2 position on the gearshift so it gives me nothing but second gear (other than the safety shift prevention if engaged at speed). And I might be interested in changing the 3 position so it leaves out first gear too.
    Troubleshooter. Stock 2002 Pontiac Bonneville SLE

  2. #2
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    What your asking for may be a bit difficult to do. Maybe not......
    I am by no means an expert!!

    The only thing I might think of, is increasing Torque reduction in first gear. That might reduce some slippage on the ice.
    OR
    Try changing the 1-2 shift a lot earlier.... like @ 1MPH while under 50% TPS. Or if you move the decimal over you can have it change @ 0.5 MPH.
    I would also think your Mileage MPG will drop.

    this might do some weird things to the trans.......Pure guess on my part.
    Last edited by GeoJB; 10-26-2011 at 06:06 PM. Reason: I played with my own trans settings.
    The Regal has been laid to rest..... rust
    Now have an 06 Lucerne with the 3.8 and wishing HPT would cover that car
    Loved my 2001 Buick Regal GS.
    With more than 334,000K, 3.4 & 3.6 pulley, Change stats and pulleys with the seasons, Upgraded grounds & power wire, Volt booster, Caspers timing commander(AKA happy knob), Spectra intake-fender wall, PLog, 3" DP & 2.5 exhaust, HPTunner 12" Impala duel piston front brakes, New trans,GMPP suspension... yada, yada...

  3. #3
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    Ya got me thinking.......
    The Regal has been laid to rest..... rust
    Now have an 06 Lucerne with the 3.8 and wishing HPT would cover that car
    Loved my 2001 Buick Regal GS.
    With more than 334,000K, 3.4 & 3.6 pulley, Change stats and pulleys with the seasons, Upgraded grounds & power wire, Volt booster, Caspers timing commander(AKA happy knob), Spectra intake-fender wall, PLog, 3" DP & 2.5 exhaust, HPTunner 12" Impala duel piston front brakes, New trans,GMPP suspension... yada, yada...

  4. #4
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    So is there a different table for each control lever position? Or does this setting affect all positions equally.

    I really want it to happen only when I am in the 2 or 3 position, but not in the D or 1 position.
    Last edited by Troubleshooter; 10-28-2011 at 09:31 AM.
    Troubleshooter. Stock 2002 Pontiac Bonneville SLE

  5. #5
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    There is not, this will effect all tables. I dont know if your Bonneville has a performance shift button. But if it does you could set up the normal or performance to what geo showed in the picture. That way you could use the button to switch back and forth. I personally would do it in the torque management for 1-2 table... that way you have no worries of overheating trans, burning up clutch or bad gas mileage.
    Last edited by midwboss; 10-28-2011 at 11:13 AM.
    98 Regal GS |L32| mini afc |Stattama T67 A2A Intercooled|80# injectors|walbro pump| TEP Transmission 2.93| Stattama 4 Cam| 130's| Kook racing muffler| AGX's | Doorman sway bars| BMR lateral arms| The list goes on

  6. #6
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    I do not have the performance shift button.

    Do you know which PCM pin to use to add either the performance shift button or the second gear start button? I can have that done for me by the mechanic, except that neither of us knows the correct connection pin to use.

    Can you show me that torque management setting?
    Last edited by Troubleshooter; 10-28-2011 at 11:27 AM.
    Troubleshooter. Stock 2002 Pontiac Bonneville SLE

  7. #7
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    Im at work so I dont have a screen shot that I can take for you. But if you go into the trans settings in the vcm editor and choose first option that comes down it will brake up all the trans tables. click on torque management and on the right hand side of the box at bottom it will say normal. click that and it will bring up the table. I would try 1's then 2's and so on in the tps range you are worried about until you get the feel you are looking for. I will try and find the pin you will need to hook to and get back to you.
    Last edited by midwboss; 10-28-2011 at 11:55 AM.
    98 Regal GS |L32| mini afc |Stattama T67 A2A Intercooled|80# injectors|walbro pump| TEP Transmission 2.93| Stattama 4 Cam| 130's| Kook racing muffler| AGX's | Doorman sway bars| BMR lateral arms| The list goes on

  8. #8
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    It would be pin 21. But here is the deal with a issue you will have to deal with right off the bat. If you have access to or have a dhp tuner your good because you can activate the performance table with it. I dont think or know if hp is capable of doing that yet but know the dhp will. If you dont have access I would got to the junk yard and find a regal etc that has performance shift get that pcm and re flash it with your hp tuners etc because the performance table will be activated in it already. there is a ton of info on the forums out there just google it and you will find tons of info. If you dont have any luck finding it let me know and I will link you up to a couple
    98 Regal GS |L32| mini afc |Stattama T67 A2A Intercooled|80# injectors|walbro pump| TEP Transmission 2.93| Stattama 4 Cam| 130's| Kook racing muffler| AGX's | Doorman sway bars| BMR lateral arms| The list goes on

  9. #9
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    ya just like Boss said.
    I have the perf shift button and installed the light. but my PCM does not have the programing in it to switch it back & forth. HPT does not have that capability, & doubt they will for our cars.
    The Regal has been laid to rest..... rust
    Now have an 06 Lucerne with the 3.8 and wishing HPT would cover that car
    Loved my 2001 Buick Regal GS.
    With more than 334,000K, 3.4 & 3.6 pulley, Change stats and pulleys with the seasons, Upgraded grounds & power wire, Volt booster, Caspers timing commander(AKA happy knob), Spectra intake-fender wall, PLog, 3" DP & 2.5 exhaust, HPTunner 12" Impala duel piston front brakes, New trans,GMPP suspension... yada, yada...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeoJB View Post
    HPT does not have that capability, & doubt they will for our cars.
    I believe they actually do and the process is most commonly refered to around here as swapping or adding a segment. Most of the time it's used in transmission related matters.

  11. #11
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    I am still without a definite answer to my questions, and winter is fast approaching.

    More questions:

    1. Has anyone ever seen second gear start on a Pontiac Bonneville? If so, where does the switch connect to the PCM?

    2. Is it possible to set up the shift lever so it gives nothing but second gear in the 2 position? If so, how?

    3. If the connection to shift solenoid A is temporarily disconnected, does the PCM do unusual things? If so, what happens when the connection is restored? I do have a circuit that can do this, and know where the wiring is.

    4. Does anyone have anything I can use now?
    Troubleshooter. Stock 2002 Pontiac Bonneville SLE

  12. #12
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    Why is your file not posted, I get the impression you dont have hpt.

    1. Yes, but on much older models. OBD 1 stuff
    2. No
    3.Yes, you will be in limp mode.

    Depends on your model of bonneville. Do you have performe shift? I have not tried with bonneville, but with a truck I have been able to get 2nd gear starts. If it were me, I would set 1-2 shift to 0 mph for all tps values in performance mode. Should start you in 2nd. Switch off performance mode for normal shifting. Flash the file in the fall, and back to normal in the spring. Dont have a Bonneville to try it on.

  13. #13
    The Bonneville NEVER got SGS in any year, or any trim...in fact I don't think any H-body got it at all. W-bodies had the system though. (The Bonneville DID come with perf/norm shift, in both OBD1 and OBD2)

    A non-invasive way to get SGS would be to get a ScanGauge 2, find the PID that commands 2nd gear (It would be the same method the HPT scanner uses to command second), program that into the Scangauge, and switch it through that. The other, cheap way would be to pinch power to the 1-2 solenoid. You could grab a shift handle from a Grand Prix that has OD ON/OFF switch on the side for activation.

  14. #14
    Advanced Tuner passingpower's Avatar
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    Second gear start

    Was reading your thread on that other site and am familiar with ur goals and restrictive zoning laws.

    You won’t be able to modify the lever/selector.

    You should be able to use what’s known around here as performance shift. (as midwboss and GeoJB stated) Others call it “towing” and I think still other GM models refer to “second gear start”. This is how it’s done in a 2001 V6 Camaro/Firebird: Under normal shift at 25% throttle for example the tranny shifts from 1>2 at 21mph and 2>3 at 38mph and 3>4 at 58mph. Under performance shift at 25% throttle same example the tranny shifts from 1>2 at 0mph and 2>3 at 38mph and 3>4 at 58mph. Everything is the same except all 1>2 up and down shifts occur at 0mph. These are stock settings direct from GM.

    What you’d need to implement this is a switch, wire and a connector to fit pin #21 as already described by midwboss above. Then, one of two options; a PCM from a scrapped W or G body already equipped with a perf switch flash programmed with your operating system and 1>2 = 0mph in the perf table (normal table left stock) or your existing PCM and OS flashed with 1>2 = 0mph in the perf table. That option requires an additional step: Pay someone with a PowrTuner(DHP) to set the perf switch option from 0 to 1 or, using Tiny Tuner to do the same thing (requires you start with a .bin file instead of an .hpt file. After that, connect the pin #21 wire to one switch terminal and the other terminal to chassis ground. When the switch is open, pin 21 is pulled up to 5 volts internally in the PCM and the PCM selects the normal shift table. When the switch is closed, pin 21 is externally grounded to 0 volts, the PCM selects the performance (second gear start) shift table. The V8 accomplished this by shifting into 2nd then starting the engine. V6s used the Perf switch. Cheaper than using the V8 OS. GM's intent for this function is to reduce torque in slippery conditions. Your theory about transfering slip from the tires to the torque converter is spot on. There's a price; more stress on the converter and more shearing and heating of the fluid. both acceptable for occaisonal use under light throttle.

    Print this http://www.grandprixforums.net/perf_shift.php and give it to ur mechanic. Use the Radio Shack pins suggested or the ones from GM. be sure to use pin #21 on the CLEAR connector, not the blue one.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by passingpower; 11-10-2011 at 03:32 PM. Reason: More info
    Check before you consider tuning;
    Is the MIL on? ANY leaks-vacuum, fluid or exhaust? Clogged filters? Old O2 or dirty MAF sensors? Dirty injectors, PCV or IAC passage? Correct the condition. Change the plugs & oil while you're at it. They need it anyway. Particular system giving you fits? Visually examine the related wiring first.

  15. #15
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    Thanks!!! Now I know what to do. I finally have enough information.

    I do not have a tuner. My mechanic has one. He needs only these diagrams and tuning charts.

    As a computer expert, I am intimately familiar with DB series connectors, so if the mechanic can't install the pin, I can. I even have the crimping tool.

    If the wire is already there, where is the other end of it?

    I thought the other tune someone suggested earlier was not right, because it did not also change the 2->1 shift points.

    One of the diagrams shows a momentary-contact switch. The rest of the documentation shows an on-off switch, with the SGS in the on position. Which is right?

    I also have a circuit I designed myself that indicates with a 2-color LED what gear the transmission is actually in. I plan to install that too.
    Last edited by Troubleshooter; 11-13-2011 at 02:15 AM. Reason: more
    Troubleshooter. Stock 2002 Pontiac Bonneville SLE

  16. #16
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    You will definitely need to run your own wire. It’s not installed in your car. There may be a grommet/pass-thru in the firewall next to the steering column. The attached example is from a 97-03 Prix. When you select your wire, current is not the issue, durability is. I recommend stranded #18. While the other shift speed suggestion was not perfect, it was an excellent educated guess without having seen the example in the stock tune first. Cudos to GeoJB. Engineers had the option of several types of switches; NC, NO, PB, logic from a data bus… So, you have options too. The ’01 Camaro/Firebird shows a NO-PB. I can verify from my installation that a switch type of “1” is an on/off and works as described above. Other options are 0, 2 and I’ve read of more. Can’t advise you as to what the momentary switch type is. You won’t be surprised to learn that Debounce is not critical. Anything from 25ms to 300ms would be fine. Keep going with the ??s. I’m sure the mod bug will bite and you’ll soon be asking about how to get 4mpg more out of the tune.
    Check before you consider tuning;
    Is the MIL on? ANY leaks-vacuum, fluid or exhaust? Clogged filters? Old O2 or dirty MAF sensors? Dirty injectors, PCV or IAC passage? Correct the condition. Change the plugs & oil while you're at it. They need it anyway. Particular system giving you fits? Visually examine the related wiring first.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by passingpower View Post
    You will definitely need to run your own wire. It’s not installed in your car. There may be a grommet/pass-thru in the firewall next to the steering column. The attached example is from a 97-03 Prix. When you select your wire, current is not the issue, durability is. I recommend stranded #18.
    That's exactly what I bought, but in a cable, because I want a couple of other signals available on my control panel.

    The reason I asked about if the wire is already there is because the wiring diagram I have for the car shows it going to the Ride Control.

    Engineers had the option of several types of switches; NC, NO, PB, logic from a data bus… So, you have options too. The ’01 Camaro/Firebird shows a NO-PB. I can verify from my installation that a switch type of “1” is an on/off and works as described above. Other options are 0, 2 and I’ve read of more. Can’t advise you as to what the momentary switch type is.
    A momentary switch is active for only as long as you hold the switch button. Letting go of it disconnects the circuit again. A doorbell pushbutton is an example.

    An on/off switch retains the setting after you let go of it. The light switch for a ceiling light is an example.

    I got a double pole double throw rocker switch, so the other contacts can work an indicator light. I am making a little plastic case to hold the indicators that will go in the corner between the dash top and the roof post.

    You won’t be surprised to learn that Debounce is not critical. Anything from 25ms to 300ms would be fine. Keep going with the ??s. I’m sure the mod bug will bite and you’ll soon be asking about how to get 4mpg more out of the tune.
    I have been debouncing switches since the early 1970s.

    I am also adding an indicator to tell me what gear the solenoids have selected. It has the following indications:

    OFF -first
    RED - second
    YELLOW - third
    GREEN - fourth

    I figure it will help me with my throttle technique to save fuel.
    Last edited by Troubleshooter; 11-16-2011 at 11:18 AM.
    Troubleshooter. Stock 2002 Pontiac Bonneville SLE

  18. #18
    Advanced Tuner passingpower's Avatar
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    I’ve got three years of electronics engineering myself. When I said “Can’t advise you as to what the momentary switch type is.” What I meant to say is I can’t tell you or your mechanic which software setting (0,1,2…) to use to tell the PCM what type of switch is installed. I’m using a SPDT and a software setting of “1”. Didn’t need to change anything as that’s stock on my Prix. Being you’re using a DPDT, the software setting will have to be 1 if it’s not already. Brings me to the next point: What tuning package(s) is your mechanic using? He may not have access to some of these settings and may not be able to enable the Ride/Performance tables using the other software switch. You’ll need to verify. You’ll also need to verify if #21 clear is/isn’t populated. My schematic shows Perf Switch wiring but, it was never installed due to cost considerations just like the courtesy lights in my doors. The bright side of my install is that my Driver Info Center still works as a “Performance Shift” indicator ‘cause a software signal is sent over the bus from the PCM to light a single LCD segment.

    Slick idea with the gear status light! Check out this shift indicator. http://www.backinblackgp.com/SVII.htm
    I stumbled across that years ago. Had to Google for that link. When I did, guess what I found! http://www.backinblackgp.com/2ndGearStart.htm

    If you really want to econo-mod your throttle technique, monitor the Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) status. Keep it locked as much as you can. You could also monitor the purple wire from your pre-cat O2 sensor using an LM317 to a dashboard light. That line is a 0-1volt feedback signal. (I’m sure you’ve already researched this.) Set the threshold for 0.7v. For best economy, use a light enough throttle to keep that one flashing. If it’s on steady, you’re commanding Power Enrichment in open loop. The longer you stay in that mode, the richer you’ll be burning.

    Or, if you want to go all-out and see what the feedback loop is doing, build the attached monitor and make some changes; Pin5 0-1v input from O2 purple. Pin4 0v ref from O2 tan. (pink and black are O2 heater +12v and 0v respectively) Use a potentiometer for the pin 6,7,8 reference network adjust and calibrate it for 1.00v full scale. The loop is closed as long as the lights are dancing. Have fun.
    Last edited by passingpower; 11-18-2011 at 06:20 PM.
    Check before you consider tuning;
    Is the MIL on? ANY leaks-vacuum, fluid or exhaust? Clogged filters? Old O2 or dirty MAF sensors? Dirty injectors, PCV or IAC passage? Correct the condition. Change the plugs & oil while you're at it. They need it anyway. Particular system giving you fits? Visually examine the related wiring first.

  19. #19
    Advanced Tuner Phantom's Avatar
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    Sorry That I did not check here months ago I have the answers that you need and want to hear.

    Questions:

    1. Is second gear start really available for a 2002 Pontiac Bonneville SLE. If so, where do the switch and wires connect? Do not answer this question unless you know.
    A. Yes, no wires needed.

    2. Is there a separate shift table for each selector lever position? Or do they all work off the same table?
    Yes tables available for the gear selector.

    3. Can first gear be left out (start in second) by changing the shift table?
    Yes

    More questions:

    1. Has anyone ever seen second gear start on a Pontiac Bonneville? If so, where does the switch connect to the PCM?
    Yes my 98 has this and so does my 03 GP. No wires needed.

    2. Is it possible to set up the shift lever so it gives nothing but second gear in the 2 position? If so, how?
    Yes!


    How to:
    1. Get a copy of your PCM and get the OSID for it.
    2. Have the tuner request that HPT adds the shift tables for gear selector in 2nd. (I did not do it this way)

    2.(alternative) Download Tiny tuner (TT) http://theblattners.com/Projects/TinyTuner/default.html
    2a. Go to clubgp and post in the tuning section that you need a .bin for the OSID in step 1 This is needed because TT reads a different format.

    3. In TT or HPT go to trans settings> shift tables open 2nd gear shift tables.
    4. Set all 1st gear options (under 2nd gear shift) to 0mph and the lines for 2nd down shift to 0mph. There is an over speed section that will allow you to set an mph to force a 3rd gear shift that you can set to what you want mine is like 40mph.

    5. After saving the file it is ready to flash as normal using HPT (if you used TT just load the .bin in HPT)



    I would post pictures but I'm at work and do not have my flash drive with TT on it.

    02 VW Golf

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    03 Grandprix GT
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  20. #20
    Advanced Tuner Phantom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by passingpower View Post
    [FONT=Verdana]
    I stumbled across that years ago. Had to Google for that link. When I did, guess what I found! http://www.backinblackgp.com/2ndGearStart.htm
    I just wanted to note that the above link will not work on his car it only works on the 4t60e trans he as a 4t65e trans and that mod will not work I had BackinblackGP tell me this a while ago.

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