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Thread: LNF Guide Videos

  1. #121
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    Is it possible to go over 100% torque, or over 255 DAL? Maybe over 255 will work now since that gay nanny is disabled, but before, it hated anything over 255 so that became my maximum Dal limit. I'm honestly not sure which table to touch at this point.. maybe I should up the timing some more since it no longer has any knock anywhere, except maybe the very occasional tip-in at low rpm.. can't really increase fuel, it's either air or have a higher torque target lol.. Everything is good except at WoT for me, and I may do another Maf calibration just to get it even closer and more dialed in than it already is.. it's not perfect.. certain spots it's lean or rich, but most of it is +/- 1.5. It just doesn't quite sound right at WoT.. it's ok until maybe 4k then it sounds lean or it's short on something.. can't put my finger on it though.. can't be lean on fuel.. I'm commanding .867 if I recall correctly and yet it doesn't sound like it's bogged with fuel either..
    Any ideas? I guess I'm basically asking, which table needs the adjustment to get it right? The tune is close, but just not quite and Idk which it is.. help

  2. #122
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    you can go over 255 dals it tends to make other tables more sensitive.
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  3. #123
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    Going to try increasing the fuel pressure to 2300psi first.. is that about the maximum limit or is 2350 or 2400 better? I read that if the injection windows goes over 6ms, which it occasionally does under WoT (yes I too have a ported head w/cams) that if you up this pressure, it'll fix that problem and allow other things to fall into place like they're supposed to.. Assuming this is correct, this may be the only change I need; other than a more precise Maf calibration.

  4. #124
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    if your not fuel injector misfiring then leave the fuel pressure alone there isnt a big enough gain to touch it.
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  5. #125
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    It was misfiring.. it seems to have relearned to not misfire, but it was still misfiring when I first uploaded this tune which should no longer be misfiring, especially with 3+psi lower boost across the board, and in some cases, 8psi less
    Also had 6.3 ms injection pw in my last log and I noticed that once it hit that, boost dropped from 21psi gradually to 17 or 18 whereas before, somehow, it held it all the way to the stock redline and it was at a higher level.. I'll try and show the 2 different files.. both with same DAL table. It seems if I increase WGDC now, I lose boost instead of increase it.. it's gotta be the reason why. I'm not sure, but it was misfiring a lot since I changed the Pressure RPM Factor to 6.0 This is a before and after log.. the before being my best performing tune, albeit not perfect, but boost was dialed in; although, it was creeping down as I drove the car.. it was learning to decrease it over time. It seems to me that it's been doing the same thing with the Inj Pw.. It used to actually work at 6.9 ms before, and since I made that change, as soon as it gets above 6 ms it misfires and lowers boost. Maybe my theory is wrong, but it seems to be the issue.. my timing is good.. dal hasn't changed.. matched the trq table to dal.. what else could be wrong? This HAS to be it.. at least it's my theory lol... if it's something else, please Lmk



    Attachment 39462Attachment 39463
    Last edited by Knightwolf; 06-03-2013 at 10:37 PM.

  6. #126
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    Increased fuel pressure to 2300psi, increased WGDC slightly at the lower points, increased PE to .88@2920, .87@3480, .86@4080-4640, .85@5240-7500
    Seems to have improved somewhat, but there's still more to be found. Injector Pw seems to be a tiny bit lower.. It hit 6ms once at 23psi and before that, 6.2@21psi I'm guessing it's still learning but it definitely looks better.. it's mostly in the 4's-5's and only broke 6ms those 2 times for a couple milliseconds. Gonna drive it a bit tomorrow and see if it changes more, otherwise I'll be upping the Wgdc some more to try and flatline it instead of losing boost as rpms increase which is what it seems to be doing, although it is a bit better now.. can definitely feel more power already.
    Reason I increased fuel is because I read that the 10% ethanol fuels make Stoic 14.1 instead of 14.7.. if that's the case, then more fuel should be plugged in to compensate 12.6 afr, if I recall correctly, is about right for our cars; however, with ethanol content, that will probably change by .5 (just a rough guesstimate) so should be closer to 12.0 or thereabouts.. figured a bit more fuel might get it closer... it did skew my fuel trims more, but I'll see what it does before I go making changes to the Maf calibration.. once I get it to where I'm happy with it, then I'll redo the Maf.

  7. #127
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    10 % ethanol pump fuel is junk. there isnt enough ethanol in the fuel to change the afr stoich so if you want to see how a gas car can actually diesel dump then lower that down to 12 like you think it will need. 12.6 to 12.8 is the nominal range wot for most lnf's. if you set it there without a dyno you will be happy.
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  8. #128
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    10% ethanol pump fuel is the best we have up here.. everything else, even another 94 premium is imo much more similar to your guy's 91 octane fuel. You guys send us all the shit fuel and keep the good stuff for yourselves.. I make do with the best I can get a hold of.. I've tried other fuels and none of them yield any good results.. this 10% ethanol from Husky is the best I can find for this car.. It has allowed me to run much higher timing than before, or at least that's what Vince had said.. not so much about the fuel, rather the cams, but I made some changes like the fuel and colder plugs to make that happen; I attribute those things to helping me be the fastest Lnf in Edmonton, maybe even Alberta or all of western Canada. I'm not sure, but nobody has run like I have to my knowledge.. maybe in Ontario, but I'm sure they get better fuel there, as well as lower elevation, and more money for crazier mods. I do have a ZFR to put on, but I'm just waiting until I can afford a clutch kit to go with it so that I can actually utilize the power. My clutch was actually slipping in 2nd gear during some of these tunes that I've been working on; unfortunately, I can't get that power back again lol. Kinda banging my head against the wall.. anyways, I just finished beefing up my Dal up to 265 max now and increased my torque table accordingly, or at least somewhat similarly.

    Hopefully it responds but I've upped Wgdc by over 10% and it has done absolutely nothing.. well maybe .5psi lol
    Starting to wonder if the tune file has gone corrupt again.. it's almost acting like it to me.. changes aren't being uploaded or something.
    Last edited by Knightwolf; 06-04-2013 at 08:05 PM.

  9. #129
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    Well.. I failed.. 13.2@111mph Last year I ran 13.1@111mph with Vince's tune. I was running 13.7@109mph before I made a fairly large tweak to WGDC and increased DAL's again.. then I was running consistent 13.2 - 13.4's at 111. Was thinking of making another change but an STI caught fire on the track.. they shut her down so my night was done. I've since gone back to an old file and changed a couple of things.. wanted to try it.. perhaps next week; so far, just from the log I made on the way home, at WoT it has ALOT more power.. a lot less below 90% or thereabouts I'm guessing and not nearly as smooth.. smoothened the tables when I got home and then I'll hafta see.. At least I have my own tune that I've made and this one that worked very well but it's much closer to a stock stage 1 table with updates done to it.
    Not sure why, but with my tune, I seemed to get a 23psi spike and then it kept falling off lower and lower as rpms increased.. I upped the WGDC to almost 95 if I recall and it was still doing it.. had a bit of a gain as the timeslips got a little quicker as you can see above.

    On a sidenote, I stayed with an SVT Cobra on the track.. he got the jump off the line, then I pulled him in a little and we stayed almost identical.. I was gaining on him ever so slightly.. he ran a 13.1@109 and I was 13.2@111.. good to know I can hang with an SC 4.6 V8 though

  10. #130
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    Good runs! Get rid of that spike to hold boost up top better. My boost hits about 20 and creeps up to roughly 22 and stays until shift.
    2008 Saturn Sky Redline - ZZP Downpipe, DDM Backbone, DDM Probeam

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  11. #131
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    23 to 6420
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  12. #132
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    I only have 1 tune that seems to hold boost, and it too spikes a bit. I am wondering though, MAF VE and Main VE.. what's the difference between these two? I'm asking because I've noticed that most of my updates causes the MAF VE to be higher, sometimes a lot higher than Main VE and if I'm not mistaken, it causes a lean condition so to speak. I'm unsure of this, but it seems that whenever the 2 figures aren't close to one another, it doesn't pull like it should. Feel like I'm onto something, but I'm not sure what needs adjusting to correct that particular situation. Whenever I update my "good" tune where those 2 are almost the same, the tune basically takes a shit and doesn't improve, it worsens yet runs smoother.. doesn't really make sense.

  13. #133
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    With a factory turbo the maf will be higher than ve has to do with the turbo backpressure I think. It hasn't really been officially looked into by anyone we just accept it when it makes legit power on the dyno. After market turbos tend to do great work when you move cams to make them match. Keep in mind the dyno will be the final deciding factor when you see "what she wants" so to speak

  14. #134
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    Attaching my latest work.. it's better but I may not have calibrated high enough in the rpm range since I have knock and I think I saw it was lean up there as well.. otherwise, it's pretty good.. boost is decent for the most part, it's pretty smooth and Maf Ve almost matches Main Ve. I lowered my plug gap .004 so I'm down to .030 now.. at first with the "good" tune that was hitting 24psi and holding, I lost 4psi across the board.. so I decided to load this tune back up and modify it, work with it, and get it as close to right as possible since this is the tune that I ran 13.2@111 with and it's a much smoother tune.. did a little tweaking, upped Wgdc by 1% if I recall and modified a couple of the tables in the 90-100% load columns to try and beef her up. It looks like I'm on the right track, but I wish MAF calibration was a bit easier.. it's sooooo time consuming and even after a 30 minute variable driving log, it's still nowhere near being spot on, although it seems that the important shit is working correctly, except above 5300-5700rpm where I'm getting a fair bit of knock.. which brings me to a question:
    How come HpTuners shows knock and my Rpd in the car(wideband) does not? If my Rpd actually shows 1º of knock, Hp is probably reading 3-5º.. it's quite the discrepancy. I'm guessing, it's probably not worth worrying about because with Vince's tune, I had to fight with octane boosters and spark plug gaps to get that knock down to 2º or less.. often it'd hit around 3º and stay there at WoT which imo, is not good. I feel more comfortable having it at 1º or less on my Rpd.. anything above that isn't acceptable in my book. But Hp shows a fair bit more which concerns me.. which should I truly believe and how do you know the difference between false and real knock?


    Attachment 39607Attachment 39608Attachment 39609Attachment 39610
    Last edited by Knightwolf; 06-13-2013 at 11:55 PM.

  15. #135
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    *bump
    First post has been edited to include a new ethanol fuels basics video. as like the rest it can only be viewed by using the url posted.

    sorry for the poor audio quality on the first video. something to do with my astros not co-operating with the capture software.
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  16. #136
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    Question:
    I have a good strong tune pretty much across the board since I did a good solid Maf calibration, but I get a little bit of spark blowout in 4th gear only at WoT, probably boosting higher in that gear than the first 3, although it could be caused after a 3-4 NLS, yet it doesn't do it after the 2-3 NLS. So what do I do to resolve that issue? Should I:
    a: Turn down boost across all levels slightly or
    b: Turn down Tq Mgmt in Rpm vs Gear table for 4th gear (would that lower the boost slightly if I changed it by 1-2% or merely change the power level?)
    c: Maf calibration for 2-3 and 3-4 NLS's?

    It's not a huge amount, like pop pop pop, rather 2-3 seconds inbetween, maybe even 4 seconds. I'm kind of hoping it'll resolve itself over time since I basically just finalized the tune last night and that was the first datalog after doing so.

    Another question:

    Burst Knock Retard Tip-in: Should this be modified at all? I sometimes get 1-4º of knock in HpTuners while datalogging usually at light loads, lower rpms.. sometimes as low as 800-1100. It could be clutch chatter, but it's a stock clutch setup still.. it could also be my HiD kits that I had "professionally" installed that I found a little while ago to just be hanging inside the fenders so to speak.. not really in the fenders but near the very front if you know what I mean. They should be bolted down somewhere or secured somehow and they're just hanging loose so I suspect it could be causing some of my random knock issues that I've been seeing. The car runs strong, really strong.. so I just can't see it being real knock.
    Also, Is it possible that HpTuners can sometimes read false knock? Occasionally, it'll say I'm knocking 2.99º or 3.69º often, but usually midrange, or sometimes every now and then at WoT.. and often times, it could only be on 1 cylinder.. Seems to vary somewhat and can change cylinders.. no real pattern that I can see and yet my wideband Rpd in car 9 times out of 10 says 0º of knock... What gives?

    Any insight on these minor issues would be helpful.
    Thx in advance

  17. #137
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    Use rpm x gear to correct boost creep in 4th and gap plugs to 0.30"

    Hpt picks up whatever the Ecu gets back end of story. The lnf has false kr which if you can diagnose oscilloscope patterns and events you will usually rule them out as clutch activity or rubbing parts.

  18. #138
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    Ya ok... just wanted to make sure that'd only affect the boost creep and not just power levels so to speak. Already gapped to .030" and it did help initially.. air has been really dense this week too, raining almost everyday and quite humid when it's not so it may also be adding to it right? How do I diagnose with an oscilloscope? lol.. tape it to the rocker cover and somehow listen to it while driving? Do you have a model recommendation and a way of making it work for this sort of thing? Would a handheld version be better or one that'd plug into my computer via usb?
    Thx

  19. #139
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    listening device is called a stethoscope lol oscilloscope is an electrical volt meter per say but it reads the inputs over time increments and displays the information on a graph. this option is available to you in the vcm scanner already. the black background screen with the wavy lines in it....yep you guessed it that's an oscilloscope. *the vcm scanner scope only samples the information as fast as the connection rate will allow. a true hand held or bench model oscilloscope will show much more detail due to adjustable manufacture settings on the unit itself.

    you can read the wave patterns at any given time and verify them with other signals in the same display screen and make out events. you will acquire this skill over time and trial and error trying to fix issues or even just modifying basic things like boost curves and timing ramps.

    atmospheric conditions have everything to do with how a motor runs so yes high humidity can cause issues. rpm vs gear will effect power output but only for the gear and area you have adjusted it. in your case you will use it to bring the boost down into a safe range where you can add the proper timing for safe and reliable hp.
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  20. #140
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    Another quick question.. MAF base table.. if it's set to 1 or .97 or 1.132 or something.. what exactly is it multiplying, Stoic? This would set the AFR then if I'm not mistaken right? .97 would be like 14.25 or so and 1.13 would be around 16.6 Is this how it works? Kinda curious so I know the logic behind it and get an idea of exactly what the relation between the base table and the Maf Cal airflow chart is. It's probably more in depth than this, but I think it may be the general idea.... Asking because I just did a log to reset my base table and it's saying I'm lean at WoT with evap disconnected, and yet, there's no knock there.. usually too lean = knock and I don't want to mess things up.. it's pretty good right now but my base table is still set to all 1's.. just wanted to rectify that.
    Thx