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Thread: "Built" Transmission Tuning...

  1. #1
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    "Built" Transmission Tuning...

    I have a 2004 Silverado with a turbocharged forged 6.0L.

    The transmission is a 4l65 with a pro-torque 3500 converter, redline clutches, shift kit, billet servos, deep pan and probably some other stuff.

    My question is what needs to change in the transmission tuning to accommodate the modifications? I have heard people are turning the line pressure up as well as the TCC duty cycle. Sorry I'm a newb when it comes to this whole auto trans thing.

    Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I can provide any info you might need as well.

    Current tune attached...

  2. #2
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    The "built" trans is probably more durable, but may not
    want anything special. Depends on whether the builder
    increased mechanical line pressure, went to vacuum
    modulated (probably not helpful on a forced induction
    setup unless positive pressure is "comprehended" by
    the modulator).

    The converter, that wants the usual converter stuff.

    Now I think I'd be playing a lot with line pressure and
    give it all-in, early just for luck. Do not know what your
    vehicle has for General Pressure stuff, or if you just
    want to jack the force motor table around to get what
    you want.

    I'd begin with some scanning and look for signs of slip
    in the frictions, going by input/output shaft speed ratio
    against the nominal in-gear ratio. This is the sign you
    need more steady state pressure, and it's likely to be
    worst at light / cruise where GM went for economny
    and bet you wouldn't mod up.

    There're some how-tos out there that are pretty
    reasonable, though they may have less to say about
    more extreme setups (like turbo).

  3. #3
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    Thanks for the info. How much of a difference do you typically see between the input and output shafts as far as RPM? I would assume you don't want to see any difference at all right?

    I know that the base line pressure was turned up but I'm not sure how much. How do I scan line pressure? I found a PID for Force Motor (PCS) Line Pressure but that was the only line pressure I saw.

    Thanks again for the help!

  4. #4
    Senior Tuner edcmat-l1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbojunky View Post
    Thanks for the info. How much of a difference do you typically see between the input and output shafts as far as RPM? I would assume you don't want to see any difference at all right?

    I know that the base line pressure was turned up but I'm not sure how much. How do I scan line pressure? I found a PID for Force Motor (PCS) Line Pressure but that was the only line pressure I saw.

    Thanks again for the help!
    The input and output shaft speed difference will depend on what gear it's in.

    I don't think there are any pressure pids for that trans. Pretty sure there isn't.

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    Advanced Tuner midevil1's Avatar
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    FYI...no such thing as a BUILT 60E, 65E, and 70E. Anemic piles of crap. Keep at least 50% TQ management..
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    Quote Originally Posted by edcmat-l1 View Post
    The input and output shaft speed difference will depend on what gear it's in.

    I don't think there are any pressure pids for that trans. Pretty sure there isn't.
    What is the best way to determine my gear ratios? The trans is not the original out of my truck and I don't know where it came from.....

  7. #7
    Advanced Tuner Shrek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbojunky View Post
    What is the best way to determine my gear ratios? The trans is not the original out of my truck and I don't know where it came from.....
    All 700R4 / 4L60 / 4L60E / 4L65E / 4L70E have the same OEM gear ratios.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shrek View Post
    All 700R4 / 4L60 / 4L60E / 4L65E / 4L70E have the same OEM gear ratios.
    Thanks, again I am a total newb when it comes to transmission stuff.

    I took a good log today of a bunch of different driving. I have attached the log along with the config file I am using. Also attached the current tune again. I am curious what is going on right at 4:32. Its during a hard second gear pull. The input rpm shoots up but the output stays steady. That would be considered a "slip" right? Could this be something with the converter?
    Last edited by Turbojunky; 05-07-2012 at 08:28 PM.

  9. #9
    Advanced Tuner midevil1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbojunky View Post
    Thanks, again I am a total newb when it comes to transmission stuff.

    I took a good log today of a bunch of different driving. I have attached the log along with the config file I am using. Also attached the current tune again. I am curious what is going on right at 4:32. Its during a hard second gear pull. The input rpm shoots up but the output stays steady. That would be considered a "slip" right? Could this be something with the converter?
    You answered your own question. You are seeing the converter flash.
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  10. #10
    Senior Tuner edcmat-l1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by midevil1 View Post
    You answered your own question. You are seeing the converter flash.
    No, the converter flash should be engine RPM versus input shaft RPM. When it flashes, there's a rapid rise in engine RPM, but not input shaft RPM. The converter's out shell and impeller increases RPM rapidly with the engine RPM, the turbine and input shaft lags behind.

    The point in the data log which he's asking about kinda concerns me. It's well into the RPM range, and when he goes full throttle, the converter doesn't really flash, because of the fact that he's so far into the RPMs. There is about a 1000 RPM flash (little less maybe) when he goes from part throttle to full throttle. You can see that in the top chart. But, the spike in input shaft speed happens a little later. To me, that looks like a clutch pack slip.

    Edit: You can see the converter flash between frames 1304 to 1310. Look at the RPM rise, before it flattens back out. That's the flash.
    Last edited by edcmat-l1; 05-08-2012 at 06:31 AM.

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by edcmat-l1 View Post
    No, the converter flash should be engine RPM versus input shaft RPM. When it flashes, there's be a rapid rise in engine RPM, but not input shaft RPM. The converter's out shell and impeller increases RPM rapidly with the engine RPM, the turbine and input shaft lags behind.

    The point in the data log which he's asking about kinda concerns me. It's well into the RPM range, and when he goes full throttle, the converter doesn't really flash, because of the fact that he's so far into the RPMs. There is about a 1000 RPM flash (little less maybe) when he goes from part throttle to full throttle. You can see that in the top chart. But, the spike in input shaft speed happens a little later. To me, that looks like a clutch pack slip.

    Edit: You can see the converter flash between frames 1304 to 1310. Look at the RPM rise, before it flattens back out. That's the flash.
    Thanks for the info. Any suggestions? Is there anything I can change in the tune to help this?

  12. #12
    Advanced Tuner midevil1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edcmat-l1 View Post
    No, the converter flash should be engine RPM versus input shaft RPM. When it flashes, there's be a rapid rise in engine RPM, but not input shaft RPM. The converter's out shell and impeller increases RPM rapidly with the engine RPM, the turbine and input shaft lags behind.

    The point in the data log which he's asking about kinda concerns me. It's well into the RPM range, and when he goes full throttle, the converter doesn't really flash, because of the fact that he's so far into the RPMs. There is about a 1000 RPM flash (little less maybe) when he goes from part throttle to full throttle. You can see that in the top chart. But, the spike in input shaft speed happens a little later. To me, that looks like a clutch pack slip.

    Edit: You can see the converter flash between frames 1304 to 1310. Look at the RPM rise, before it flattens back out. That's the flash.
    Hell, I didn't even look at the log. My bad.. Time for an 80E and never look back..
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  13. #13
    Advanced Tuner midevil1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbojunky View Post
    Thanks for the info. Any suggestions? Is there anything I can change in the tune to help this?
    Take your shift times down to .100 in all gears in performance. at least .175 in normal. Quick shifts and some TQM will help a lot, but the 60E's are not a transmission that will handle the power with the weight of a truck. NEVER gonna happen.
    Last edited by midevil1; 05-08-2012 at 01:39 AM.
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    My Force Motor Current table is still stock. Should I lower those numbers to achieve a higher pressure?

  15. #15
    Read Cool-Aids write up. It's pretty helpful explaining all the tables and what they do. I know its posted on LS1tech and may be posted here too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01ssreda4 View Post
    Read Cool-Aids write up. It's pretty helpful explaining all the tables and what they do. I know its posted on LS1tech and may be posted here too.
    It's posted here as well.