GM Ecotec LSJ owner, new to HPT

[Ecocharge]

Hello everyone. I have a 2005 Saturn Ion Redline, 2.0L Ecotec Supercharged LSJ engine, and am ready to do a few things to it. I haven't really done much to the car, since anything that will net any kind of real gains will require tuning. So I figure its time I learn how to do it, and do what I have been really wanting to do to the car.


What I am looking to do is install the GM Stage II equivalent parts on my car, 42# injectors, and 77.9 mm supercharger pulley. I have heard that there are various tunes available in the HP Tuners repository. I don't have the software yet myself, but I am planning on going with the pro version. I was hoping to find a good solid base calibration for now to safely support the new modifications, since I'd have no idea where to start on creating something from my base calibration. Can anyone confirm if there is a GM Stage II calibration available for download for the 2005 Saturn Ion Redlines?

Also, are the tunes available in the repository good, legit tunes? Or is it just a free for all dumping ground for tunes? Like I said, I want to find a safe base to load for now, then from there learn my way around the software. Thanks for any help

[planethax]

There is a couple in repository, though they are not verified or tunes from HPT themselves.

Would be use at own risk type of things.

Best to read and learn, tune from scratch but can use the repository tunes for ideas.

[omega_5]

The best thing to do is to buy HPTuners first, and start modifying on a stock car, to get the feel for the software. It's easier to modify the MAF and VE tables on a stock car, when you can fall back on the stock tune.

Once you're comfortable with HPT, install your parts, and change the injectors values as per the LSJ injector spreadsheet to create a new base tune. Then you'll have to modify the MAF, VE and spark tables to match.
http://www.4shared.com/file/iMEZr2wG/Spreadsheet.html

The learning curve with tuning is more easily overcome with time. When you try to tune on a modded car that isn't running right, it just creates frustration, causes people to rush. Learning on a near stock vehicle makes things way easier.

[GM COBALT SC SS]

i actually learned like this. i installed my gms2 myself and then just loaded a gms2 file i got from my buddy. then compared that to my stock one, read all over the redline forums, thanks to omega here lol and everything started making sense.

[Dr. Nopps]

All great advice so far. Personally, I only trust tunes in the repository listed as 100% stock factory tunes supplied from well respected members of the forum. Read around and you will learn who they are. They usually have like 2000 posts under their belt and seem to be constantly helping/bailing somebody out. If this is the only car you will be using some credits to tune on for a while, then start small & basic. DON'T TUNE IF ANYTHING IS WRONG, EVEN SLIGHTLY- WITH YOUR CAR....CHECK ENGINE LIGHT, OLD CRAPPY SENSORS/HOSES/CONNECTIONS, RUNNING/IDLE QUIRKS, SAFETY OR DRIVETRAIN EQUIPMENT WHICH MAY FAIL UNDER EXTREME CONDITIONS. First save a backup copy of your factory tune onto something as read only, I used a $4.00 sandisk cruzer. Use your factory tune (Most people prefer this route.) and start by tuning it with the injectors you will end up using. (You may actually want to save money in the long run, and get an even larger sized high quality flow matched injector set now that are capable of running gasoline and E85.) Then do your dedicated cold air intake, thermostat, and pulley swap and tune so everything runs/idles PERFECT- then try pushing the envelope from there. (If you wish, you can even "model" your tune after the G.M. upgraded tune at that point, just sans some of those pesky limitations.)

[Ecocharge]

Thanks for the advice so far everyone. Having these parts just sitting around staring me in the face has gotten me antsy about getting them installed and having the car tuned. Yet, I don't want to throw a potential junk tune that could possibly grendae my car, not worth it to me over gaining a little more horsepower. I can see where you all are getting at now about learning, and building off of my stock base calibration.

Other than the injector values, MAF, VE and spark tables, are there any other tables used on the LSJs? Like I have mentined am new to the HPT world, and really have no idea on where to start, so I want to read up and get a better understanding of this. Are there any good LSJ tuning related articles on this forum or others dedicated to the LSJ vehicles that have pretty detailed LSJ tuning info? Also, any other good reads, online or paperback, that you all reccomend to someone just starting out?


Dr. Nopps and GM COBALT SC SS, I like how you both mention modeling off of the GM Stage tune. I think that seeing my stock calibration and comparing it to the stage tunes will really help me out big time in understanding the software and everything behind the scenes of what is going on with my car. If I can at least get Stage II on my car that will make happy for a while, since I am not planning on doing anything huge power wise

[omega_5]

Shawn (04Redline) put together a great guide a few years back.
http://www.redlineforums.com/forums/...ve-tuning.html

If you are unfamiliar with fuel injection, I did a very basic run down, and application to HPT a few years ago as well.
http://www.redlineforums.com/forums/...lots-pics.html

Other than that, there are a few books floating around. Greg Banish has a great HPT guide. It focuses mainly on LSX motors, but it's still very informative.


With respect to grabbing a GM Stage 2 tune, and copying the values. I usually don't recommend this, for the reason that GM modified a lot of tables in that tune that we don't have access to. While you can copy over the MAF, VE and timing... you won't get the full effect of the tune.

[GM COBALT SC SS]

Shawn (04Redline) put together a great guide a few years back.
http://www.redlineforums.com/forums/...ve-tuning.html

If you are unfamiliar with fuel injection, I did a very basic run down, and application to HPT a few years ago as well.
http://www.redlineforums.com/forums/...lots-pics.html

Other than that, there are a few books floating around. Greg Banish has a great HPT guide. It focuses mainly on LSX motors, but it's still very informative.


With respect to grabbing a GM Stage 2 tune, and copying the values. I usually don't recommend this, for the reason that GM modified a lot of tables in that tune that we don't have access to. While you can copy over the MAF, VE and timing... you won't get the full effect of the tune.

yeah, most guys on the gms2 from the dealer will see their car run rich on the gms2. and when i did just copy and paste the values, i was using the 07 file that commands a 10.8 afr up top, but it ran much leaner than that and caused a little knock, so i just zeroed out the extra timing tables. then i had no knock but it felt stock again. lol

[Ecocharge]

omega_5, thanks for the links. Lots of good information for sure, I'll probably need to read them a few times to really get a grasp on the concept.

I am glad that you mentioned that copying over the GM Stage file has tables modified that are not accessible by HPT. From what I have seen it is pretty common for LSJ owers to just copy the file over, and I thought that was fine also before you mentioned this. Glad I know now.

Between MAF and VE tuning on the LSJs, what seems to provide the better results? Or does it really matter?

[GM COBALT SC SS]

the lsj mainly runs off of maf. maf and ve are blended together up to the rpm indicated under the airflow tab> dynamic airflow.. the first is the disable point and the next is the reenable point. so up past the first point it runs primarily maf. alot of guys set these points below idle so the car will run only maf, but others say that the drivability would be better if maf and ve blended till, say 3000 rpm or so.

but you ideally need to dial them both in as closely as possible in case maf fails and ve takes over. but maf is the more important of the two.

[omega_5]

Between MAF and VE tuning on the LSJs, what seems to provide the better results? Or does it really matter?

You'll want to always have the MAF tuned from top to bottom.
The VE table, you'll want to tune below your dynamic airflow limit.

While it's fine to go full MAF to start, you'll want a tuned VE table for daily drivability. The second link I provided, 3rd post, talks about dynamic airflow and the MAF/VE blend.

[Charles05redline.719]

You'll want to always have the MAF tuned from top to bottom.
The VE table, you'll want to tune below your dynamic airflow limit.

While it's fine to go full MAF to start, you'll want a tuned VE table for daily drivability. The second link I provided, 3rd post, talks about dynamic airflow and the MAF/VE blend.

[Charles05redline.719]

omaga_5 its 2021 you still around i have a big build, been reading for months i just bought a hp and wide band lsx, im so ready to find a phone pal and or any takers... mods, hv coils, street strip comp cams, dimond/pistons 10.1, ported head 82lb springs val/re, 80lbs inj e85, m62 s/c gutted honed out, ls4 tb, 2.6 pully, deleted shafts, ati damper, all new guts, all cooling mods complated duel bypass/ heat exchanger, over sized radiator with a/c, oh ya and, inercooler pump, full 2.5 zzp exh/headers down pipe new 02s, ...I was able to complate the brake in revs. On stock tune, waitng for tuner to get here with wide band lsx, got pro with 2 credits, its so much and im old school with cars so im learning. I have all my orignal parts on hand still, so if i got to change back injectors i can. I deffentley put alot into this car all at once over the corse of the last 2 years. Open for any help i can find ......ill be back...