THE Most Powerful and Neglected Tables in the LNF E69...

[Dayhoff35]

Only thing is i didnt change anything in the higher areas. Only at idle. Mine does the same thing at first start for the first 10 seconds then levels out. It may have to do with what I was talking about earlier with the open loop switch over to closed. There has to be more idle tables that we dont have. Or you could try more timing advance in the cold areas in your multipier table.

mine was smooth up to 20* before, but now its hating me for a while i did sit in it and start it and sht it off for 3 HOURS! tonight though haha. Maybe gmtech will have some insite to this tomorrow, i though i had it figured out because when you first start the car the log shows it dropping from 100% load down to 20, so i messed with the ign timing in those areas, but nothing. Im about to blow my car up at this point

[Dayhoff35]

Arg I swear gmtech is using some sort of black magic to get his idling the way it does. I'm about ready to hang myself with my hpt cable! lol

My idle would look halfway decent if I could just get my trims to stop freakin oscilating the way that they are

you cant get them dialed in?

[Freakotec]

you cant get them dialed in?

Right now I'm so frustrated with it that I'm just stumped.... I think I may just need to start fresh and try again at this point. It's like no matter what I do that worked before, now suddenly will not work when I go back to it for some reason. My trims in particular just will not hold steady at idle, which is just causing everything else to go to s**t as well....

[Dayhoff35]

hmm what intake are you using? Mind posting a log?

also what is the best way to control TPS, as long as mine is at 17% it is silky smooth, but when it goes to 18 or 19 it gets rugh.

[Freakotec]

Here's a quick screen shot of what I'm talking about.

I cleanered a few things out of the graph so you can better clearly see the trim and lambda oscilation

[Freakotec]

Here's a log before I made a few more tweaks to get the timing up a little more. Notice how when it's in open loop things are actually relatively smooth, but once she goes into closed loop ALL hell breaks loose! lol

[Dayhoff35]

thats a bit how mine is now also, with idle at 1000rpms it didnt do it though. Im going to figure out a solution tomorrow.

[gmtech16450yz]

What's the big deal? All you have to do is make a log like this...




Ha, good thing you guys don't know where I live, I have a feeling I'd have some angry LNF owners in my driveway after this thread! Sorry! I think I did say something about this stuff being tricky didn't I? lol.

Dayhoff I took a quick look at your log, it looks like you do have some tables fighting each other. Look at ALL your spark tables like cranking, IAT, ECT, the multipliers for those, etc. They all interact. Also look at smoothing between cells. If you're way off between one cell and another, obviously it's going to jump back and forth when the idle speeds or loads start surging. I keep saying this, but it's so true. Get a little too much of ign timing, or airflow, or even fuel mixtures and it's gonna go wacky.

Here's another thing I do to try to keep track of changes, it might be obvious and something everyone is already doing, but maybe not. I number every one of my tunes, and put a description of what I've done in the title. Like this... 2---08 Saturn Sky tune #811 50 percent mix between huge cam changes and what was working before
That way I can always back up to what was working last, or I always know what tunes to compare new changes to. I'm not sure how much you guys are using the compare tools, but you should be using it constantly. I'm always comparing to what I've just changed, or my last good running tune, or even my bone stock tune. That way I know exactly how far away I'm getting from stock or what was working ok before. There's so many times, like this tune file is named, that I make a change and realize I was in the right direction, but a little too far. I'll compare to my tune from before I made the last change, and cut those changes by whatever percentage I think it will need, like this one being 50% between what I tried and what I had before. Make sense? Or obvious as H#ll and why is he telling us this stuff we already know? lol.

Sorry this is getting you guys a little frustrated, I didn't mean for that to happen. This stuff is so cool though, you can beat your head against the wall on something for the longest time, then all the sudden it all makes sense. Sometimes you give up, go back to it months later and wonder why you had such trouble with it. The reason I keep messing with this tuning stuff is it's a never ending learning experience. I've never had anything where I learn so much, and for such a long period of time. I can go weeks without doing anything to my car, and then I come up with a theory, try it in a few tunes and end up making a huge discovery that results in my car running even better! Yeah it's frustrating, but hella rewarding at times too!

[gmtech16450yz]

Here's a log before I made a few more tweaks to get the timing up a little more. Notice how when it's in open loop things are actually relatively smooth, but once she goes into closed loop ALL hell breaks loose! lol

That one is looking really good! Same thing, try lowering desired idle, it doesn't have to be that high. If you drop the idle down 50 or even 100rpm, the throttle won't do that jumping up to try to maintain the higher idle speed. Once you get things that close, make sure you save that tune and make minor changes slowly to get it dialed in better. It's really not that bad, and you let it idle for a long time too. How often are you going to let it idle that long on a cold start? It might be better on an actual normal cold start and drive away after a few seconds.

Another thought for you guys, how many miles do you have on your cars? Have any of you cleaned your intake valves? When they get gunked up it does make the idle rougher. So many other things might also be effecting idle smoothness, like spark plug gap, fuel quality, mixtures, etc. Gapping the plugs too tight will make the idle rough. So many guys close the plug gap up too far because of "spark blowout" (bs), and they end up with other problems they don't even realize. Just a thought.

[silverbullet08]

Deleted post cause I was stupid.

[Dayhoff35]

Well as a warning be very careful on what changes you make. I guess I went too far somewhere and the changes seem to be permanent and effect other areas other than idle. Only changes made were to idle cells. I had boost before I messed with these tables now I the car will not build boost. I went back to a previous file that I had made no changes to as far as these tables and I still have the same problem even after a write entire with a factory tune. I thought it was a mechanical issue with the wastegate so I ran all my vacuum lines in every different direction to try and pinpoint the issue. No luck. I even ran a straight boost line to the top port of my tial wastegate, removed all electronic boost control, maxed all boost/WG/dal tables and had no fix, even tried retarding timing. Later I gave in thinking it was a rip in the diaphram of my WG that was blowing it open.. 2 hours later and with some busted knuckles proved that it was still good. I checked the turbo for shaft play or something to make it stick but its perfect on exhaust and comperssor side. Guess someone has to be the dummy here lol and yea is 4am

Damn, sorry to hear that man. Try unplugging the battery and resetting everything, i know rewriting the ecu is kind of the same, but you never know.

I think that my problem is that my etc is too high, in your logs its at 1% and in mine its all the way up at 17% and fluxuates which i think is causing my problems.

[articzap]

I thought it was a mechanical issue with the wastegate so I ran all my vacuum lines in every different direction to try and pinpoint the issue. No luck. I even ran a straight boost line to the top port of my tial wastegate, removed all electronic boost control, maxed all boost/WG/dal tables and had no fix, even tried retarding timing.

I don't think the problem lies in the tune at that point. If you have a vacuum line going straight to the wastegate, and the spring is xxPSI, it will make that PSI, or a few PSI more.

Sounds like some type of mechanical issue.

Time to test the wastegate.

[stromboli86]

Hopefully i find some time to mess with my idle timing soon... then again everyones getting frustrated with these tables because someone (GMtech) set the bar way too high haha! My idle as of now warm feels good, 5*ish timing, 4-5% ETC, 800rpm. Cold is where im curious because somedays it starts good and relatively smooth, others it will hunt up and down slightly, and when its really cold it would require throttle input every once in a while!

[Dayhoff35]

Figured all of this out tonight! Im pumped haha. I got it to where therer is a small kink there the ac comes on where theres a 5* jump, but thats it. I still can figure out how he gets it to jump straight up though, thats the only part that i am missing. Im guessing that you messed with the cranking table? I was kinda scared to touch it lol.

[Ch1ck3n]

Well as a warning be very careful on what changes you make. I guess I went too far somewhere and the changes seem to be permanent and effect other areas other than idle. Only changes made were to idle cells. I had boost before I messed with these tables now I the car will not build boost. I went back to a previous file that I had made no changes to as far as these tables and I still have the same problem even after a write entire with a factory tune. I thought it was a mechanical issue with the wastegate so I ran all my vacuum lines in every different direction to try and pinpoint the issue. No luck. I even ran a straight boost line to the top port of my tial wastegate, removed all electronic boost control, maxed all boost/WG/dal tables and had no fix, even tried retarding timing. Later I gave in thinking it was a rip in the diaphram of my WG that was blowing it open.. 2 hours later and with some busted knuckles proved that it was still good. I checked the turbo for shaft play or something to make it stick but its perfect on exhaust and comperssor side. Guess someone has to be the dummy here lol and yea is 4am

How heavy is the spring you are running in your wg?

[silverbullet08]

delete post. false info regarding thread.

[articzap]

Have you tried logging pedal position vs throttle body? Are both achieveing 100% if floored?

[gmtech16450yz]

You've got a mechanical problem. The turbo is a mechanical device. If you close the wastegate and bypass valve, and it's not boosting, there's something wrong with the turbo. It's kinda like saying your motor doesn't have any compression because of a bad computer. Only way that could happen is if it's holding the valves open somehow, which on the turbo would be the same as the wastegate or bypass valve. If you've ruled out those factors, all you have left is an air pump that either works or doesn't work.

How does it actually run? Does it feel like 1psi? Again, if it's actually only boosting to 1 psi, you need to look at the turbo closer. Can you hear it spool?

[silverbullet08]

delete post false info

[Wangspeed]

The car runs and drives like normal and is responsive building pressure like normal until it hits its 1psi limit. You car hear the turbo at 1 psi starting to spool but just wont go. I am logging both commanded and actual pedal%. The commanded goes to 100% and actual goes to about 98%. Im going to try and post up a log later after I get it back together. Its all torn apart right now because of this. I just cant find anything that seems to be wrong..

I think it's time for a leakdown and compression test. At least it's easy to do on this motor.