Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 39

Thread: where to get LS9 injectors?

  1. #1
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    webb city, mo
    Posts
    492

    where to get LS9 injectors?

    i'm going to be doing a cam/intake/exhaust job on a '07 Z06 for a guy and I've gathered from various sources that ZR1 injectors would be good for this application. Anybody know where i can get a set? the only reputable place i'm finding that has them is Lingenfelter and i'm pretty sure i could get them cheaper somewhere else....just wondering where everyone else gets them from.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    4,805
    I can get you a set. PM me.

    DSX Tuning - Authorized HP Tuners Dealer
    http://www.dsxtuning.com
    http://www.facebook.com/dsx.tuning
    Just say no to bull s***.
    IF YOU WANT HELP, POST A FILE!

  3. #3
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    webb city, mo
    Posts
    492
    sent

  4. #4
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Close to my Z06
    Posts
    270
    Where would we get the data for a 06Z from? I take it those are the short style, so spacers needed for the fast intake?

  5. #5
    Senior Tuner Ben Charles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Calibrating
    Posts
    2,815
    In the repository

    Email Tunes, Bencharles_10@hotmail.com
    96 TA Blown/Stroked, 4L80E/Fab 9
    15 C7 A8 H/C 2.3 Blower/PI
    14 Gen 5 Viper
    Custom Mid Engine chassis, AKA GalBen C

  6. #6
    Senior Tuner IDRIVEAG8GT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Roswell, N.M.
    Posts
    1,956
    Quote Originally Posted by HNK View Post
    Where would we get the data for a 06Z from? I take it those are the short style, so spacers needed for the fast intake?
    Send me a PM. I have the converted data here somewhere.
    Gray Ghost- The abomination. 2007 Chevrolet Silverado CCSB. 98mm turbo, nitrous, 428LSX, Rossler 80E with a brake. Finally finished. 23 psi, no numbers, Slow as hell.

    PBM G8- Aluminum 364, twin Precision 67/66 turbos, 6L90 trans swap, CTS-V/Vaporworx fuel system, slowly making progress.

    Dads 2011 CTS-V- Stock bottom end, stock heads, LS9 cam, pullies, ported blower, ported TB, D3 goodies, and lots of nitrous.
    618/618 motor
    906/862 spray

    Caterpillar 50 Forklift- Duramax swap

  7. #7
    Senior Tuner
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Mobile, AL & Colorado Springs, CO
    Posts
    2,045
    I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but that's not the best injector to stick in anything other than a vehicle with a LSA/LS9 lower intake, or an intake with similar geometry for injector positioning. They have a angled spray pattern optimized for the LSA/LS9 vehicles, and the injection will hit the wall instead of properly at the valve, thus you'll have all sorts of issues with tuning, especially with trims and transient.

    The factory LS3/LS7 injectors will make it to 600+ rwhp Actual/Uncorrected. Do you really need an injector?! I've tuned many a LS7 with cam/intake/exhaust on the stock injector, and have never run out of headroom, even in the dead of winter at sea level.
    Last edited by RWTD; 02-24-2013 at 02:25 PM.
    RWTD
    True Custom Tuning & Performance Parts Specialists!
    Custom Tuning: dynotune@rwtd.com

    Toys: '08 C6 LS3 / '03 SVT Cobra / '08 Harley Davidson Nightrod Special / '11 Chevy Duramax

  8. #8
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    4,805
    They work perfectly fine despite the whole "angled spray pattern" boogie man.

    DSX Tuning - Authorized HP Tuners Dealer
    http://www.dsxtuning.com
    http://www.facebook.com/dsx.tuning
    Just say no to bull s***.
    IF YOU WANT HELP, POST A FILE!

  9. #9
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    371
    Can you guys confirm the part# on the LS9 injector is 12598646, AC Delco# 217-3350, Bosch# 0280158187? And flow rate is 52.48 @ 58 PSI?

    For some reason, I've heard 46.4, 48.9, and 52.48 lb/min.

  10. #10
    Senior Tuner Iam Broke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    2,305
    The Bosch P/N is correct. My HPT will only show me the metric values today for some reason, the Imperial button won't change the inj table. Pull up a ZL1 tune, it's in there.

    IIRC 52.48 @ 58 psi is correct.
    '12 Camaro T3 2SS/RS LS3 M6, SLP TVS 2300, Flex Fuel

  11. #11
    Senior Tuner
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Mobile, AL & Colorado Springs, CO
    Posts
    2,045
    Quote Originally Posted by DSteck View Post
    They work perfectly fine despite the whole "angled spray pattern" boogie man.
    That's interesting. Have you personally done any before and after comparisons, and do you happen to have any logs, such as trims and transient, and air/fuel differences at WOT? I know Whipple refused to use them because of the angle, since their inlet geometry was built with the standard injector spray pattern.

    The 03-04 Cobra injector is also an angled spray pattern, and yes they will work in a vehicle that had a standard spray pattern originally, BUT I have personally seen enough differences on handfuls of vehicles to not advise to use them, especially in the transient areas. There's more accurate options (flow matched) for not much difference in price.

    The other whole issue is if the injector is actually needed for this gent? Is he going to exceed 90-95% duty cycle in the absolute best weather conditions? Actually wanting to spend money is usually the best reasoning here, and that's perfectly fine, if the customer doesn't have any problem with it, or is he just getting bad advice?
    Last edited by RWTD; 02-25-2013 at 12:01 PM.
    RWTD
    True Custom Tuning & Performance Parts Specialists!
    Custom Tuning: dynotune@rwtd.com

    Toys: '08 C6 LS3 / '03 SVT Cobra / '08 Harley Davidson Nightrod Special / '11 Chevy Duramax

  12. #12
    Senior Tuner
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Mobile, AL & Colorado Springs, CO
    Posts
    2,045
    Quote Originally Posted by Iam Broke View Post
    The Bosch P/N is correct. My HPT will only show me the metric values today for some reason, the Imperial button won't change the inj table. Pull up a ZL1 tune, it's in there.

    IIRC 52.48 @ 58 psi is correct.
    Right click on the table after opening it, and change the layout there. Hopefully that'll work.
    RWTD
    True Custom Tuning & Performance Parts Specialists!
    Custom Tuning: dynotune@rwtd.com

    Toys: '08 C6 LS3 / '03 SVT Cobra / '08 Harley Davidson Nightrod Special / '11 Chevy Duramax

  13. #13
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    4,805
    Quote Originally Posted by RWTD View Post
    That's interesting. Have you personally done any before and after comparisons, and do you happen to have any logs, such as trims and transient, and air/fuel differences at WOT? I know Whipple refused to use them because of the angle, since their inlet geometry was built with the standard injector spray pattern.

    The 03-04 Cobra injector is also an angled spray pattern, and yes they will work in a vehicle that had a standard spray pattern originally, BUT I have personally seen enough differences on handfuls of vehicles to not advise to use them, especially in the transient areas. There's more accurate options (flow matched) for not much difference in price.

    The other whole issue is if the injector is actually needed for this gent? Is he going to exceed 90-95% duty cycle in the absolute best weather conditions? Actually wanting to spend money is usually the best reasoning here, and that's perfectly fine, if the customer doesn't have any problem with it, or is he just getting bad advice?
    My buddy with a heads/cam LS2 went from LS2 injectors to LS9 injectors. I changed the injector data, put the wideband in, and went out for a drive. I didn't change anything else after seeing the wideband's report from WOT. It was still dead on.

    I don't really care what Whipple says... Their canned tunes are not very good. Ever seen one from a new Camaro?

    There really is NO option out there for a FULLY characterized 50+ lb/hr @ 4 bar injector until you step into the ID product line. There's Banish data for the Ford Racing injectors, but it's not completely accurate.


    Having said that, I have no qualms running an injector at 90%. When it starts to hit 95%, I'd look to replace them. There's a built in 0.8ms reset time for the injectors, so at 7000rpm, 95% injector duty cycle is technically the maximum you can do anyway because of that reset time (16.3ms worth of injector on time for a 17.1ms window).

    DSX Tuning - Authorized HP Tuners Dealer
    http://www.dsxtuning.com
    http://www.facebook.com/dsx.tuning
    Just say no to bull s***.
    IF YOU WANT HELP, POST A FILE!

  14. #14
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    371
    I would imagine the WOT stuff would be right despite the spray pattern, but how are the transients? Does it cause any noteworthy issues?

    And I would be remiss if I didn't ask, what's wrong with the Banish data for the 60's? Those Siemens 60's drive pretty darn nice, even without flow matching, in a Ford. I would think it would be a good solution for the GMs with medium to big power.

    Regarding those V-spray pattern injectors of all makes, I would also think it's important that they get clocked into the intake at the right position, so the V sprays into the valves and not front to back, right?

  15. #15
    Senior Tuner
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Mobile, AL & Colorado Springs, CO
    Posts
    2,045
    Quote Originally Posted by pontisteve View Post
    I would imagine the WOT stuff would be right despite the spray pattern, but how are the transients? Does it cause any noteworthy issues?

    And I would be remiss if I didn't ask, what's wrong with the Banish data for the 60's? Those Siemens 60's drive pretty darn nice, even without flow matching, in a Ford. I would think it would be a good solution for the GMs with medium to big power.

    Regarding those V-spray pattern injectors of all makes, I would also think it's important that they get clocked into the intake at the right position, so the V sprays into the valves and not front to back, right?
    Exactly my argument! More than just data, matching the setup with the injector is the other most important aspect. Just because they're plug-n-play and we have data, doesn't mean they're ideal for that application. I had to work on the transient of a ZR1 with a shorty Siemens 60, but that, unfortunately, was the only reliable and cost effective option for that vehicle, at the time (at least on the non factory supercharged LSx engines, we have lots of options). On the other hand, a standard ID injector isn't really proper for an LSA/LS9, but possibly they offer an option for those setups with the proper spray angle.
    RWTD
    True Custom Tuning & Performance Parts Specialists!
    Custom Tuning: dynotune@rwtd.com

    Toys: '08 C6 LS3 / '03 SVT Cobra / '08 Harley Davidson Nightrod Special / '11 Chevy Duramax

  16. #16
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    371
    I do a lot of 302 cars, and now that we've lost most of our injector options on those, I find my self choosing between 30 and 60 lb injectors a lot. That's one heck of a big gap we're stuck with, unless we scrounge up some used 42's or something.

    At the end of the day, I can't give somebody an injector that's too small. And I wont put the 39# 03 Cobra injectors in there, because of their dual spray pattern. I'm not going to lose sleep over injector cone angle, because that would just make it impossible to get every car perfect. But I do personally hold the line at single vs dual spray pattern injectors.

    While there may be some transient differences, and live might not be 'engineer perfect', we're also stuck with the reality that we can't just buy an unlimited number of injectors, spray patterns, and all at a cost of < $400. So I stick 60's in them. What other choice do we really have on a 302? And besides, they run and drive just fine. In other words, I wonder at what point we're just being too picky?

  17. #17
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    4,805
    I've never noticed a transient problem with LS9 injectors.

    As far as data for SD60s is concerned... Translating Ford style data in GM might be close, but its not right (especially the short pulse adder). Sure they work OK, but if you wanted to nit pick, the data just isn't there to make them perfect like a factory GM injector or a ID injector.



    Like I said, beware the spray pattern boogie man.

    That said, I will put IDs in something even if its twice what the setup needs just because they operate so flawlessly. Lol.

    DSX Tuning - Authorized HP Tuners Dealer
    http://www.dsxtuning.com
    http://www.facebook.com/dsx.tuning
    Just say no to bull s***.
    IF YOU WANT HELP, POST A FILE!

  18. #18
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    510
    Good info/read in here.

    I knew I would max out my stock LS2 injectors with a 4" intake, headers, and tune so I went straight to ID850s. Almost went LS9, then decided that the ID850s will help me down the road. Plugged the injector data in, scaled my tune, and off to tuning.
    ~Erik~
    2013 Sonic RS - manual, CGM, 6M, sunroof, mods in process
    2008 TrailBlazer 3SS AWD LS2, loaded, dropped, modded, SE22 Performance tuned. And then some...
    2002 TrailBlazer LT 4WD 4.2L I6, lifted, tires, exhaust, SE22 Performance tuned

  19. #19
    Senior Tuner Iam Broke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    2,305
    Quote Originally Posted by RWTD View Post
    Right click on the table after opening it, and change the layout there. Hopefully that'll work.
    It did. Thanks! Learn something every day.

    Here's the data from a ZL1 stock tune. Exported the txt files also.

    I have a set for sale on Ebay with 30 miles on them. Ebay user ambroke

    '12 Camaro T3 2SS/RS LS3 M6, SLP TVS 2300, Flex Fuel

  20. #20
    Senior Tuner
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Mobile, AL & Colorado Springs, CO
    Posts
    2,045
    Quote Originally Posted by Iam Broke View Post
    It did. Thanks! Learn something every day.

    Here's the data from a ZL1 stock tune. Exported the txt files also.
    You missed the short pulse adder table. Also, it's better to export the data into an Excel file and in kPA units on the tables with flow data, because GM revised the pressure values a few model years ago. With kPA it'll be easier to copy/paste on the cells that match up, then one can use the interpolate command to get in between on the cells that weren't able to be copied straight over. One can easily change their table units over by right clicking on the open table.
    Last edited by RWTD; 02-25-2013 at 07:20 PM.
    RWTD
    True Custom Tuning & Performance Parts Specialists!
    Custom Tuning: dynotune@rwtd.com

    Toys: '08 C6 LS3 / '03 SVT Cobra / '08 Harley Davidson Nightrod Special / '11 Chevy Duramax