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Thread: LSJ Injectors 101. Your basic how-to.

  1. #21
    Advanced Tuner omega_5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedytec View Post
    Reading all this with great interest and can see the use of properly measured injectors on a dynamic bench, but what good are those numbers if the LSJ P12 ecu calculates with these in a abnormal way?? I'm not driving a flow bench... ;-)
    Because they are the correct values.
    The injector offsets that I use for every LSJ I've tuned, are pretty much the same as every LS1 and 3800 I've tuned. I've never encountered this magical 50% offset.
    And it's always been the same routine; swap injectors, load new values, make two passes down the road and make minor clean ups. Simple. I just can't figure out why people have so much trouble with injectors swaps.
    Tyler

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by omega_5 View Post
    Because they are the correct values.
    The injector offsets that I use for every LSJ I've tuned, are pretty much the same as every LS1 and 3800 I've tuned. I've never encountered this magical 50% offset.
    And it's always been the same routine; swap injectors, load new values, make two passes down the road and make minor clean ups. Simple. I just can't figure out why people have so much trouble with injectors swaps.

    On my 2007 Cobalt with the p12, the 4 different injectors I tried took half offset values to get it right. Wonder if my injector drivers are bad, or my computer OS has issues?


    Right now I have an e67 ecm from a 2006 ss/na in my car, and it seems to take the normal offset values for the exact same injectors.


    With your offset tables in my p12 I had to pull a ton of fuel out of the maf and VE, with correct flow rates and multipliers. I wonder if it is my computer.....

  3. #23
    Advanced Tuner omega_5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lwrs10 View Post
    On my 2007 Cobalt with the p12, the 4 different injectors I tried took half offset values to get it right. Wonder if my injector drivers are bad, or my computer OS has issues?


    Right now I have an e67 ecm from a 2006 ss/na in my car, and it seems to take the normal offset values for the exact same injectors.


    With your offset tables in my p12 I had to pull a ton of fuel out of the maf and VE, with correct flow rates and multipliers. I wonder if it is my computer.....
    That's kind of what I'm wondering.
    Are you running the E67 in the same car? Could that rule out a wiring issue?

    Have you tried the "clean wipe" method on the tune? Basically take the stock tune, copy over your MAF, VE, spark, etc. But only what you know you need. Then flash that and see if it fixes it.
    Sometimes in the tuning process you can accidentally change a value or table while experimenting, and it gets lost in the whole mix.
    It's happened to me. I was playing with some spark idle tables, thought I hit the do not save button, it created a massive gremlin. The car would barely idle, and I couldn't figure out why for days. I did a clean wipe, and compared it to the tune I had previously used.... oops!
    Tyler

  4. #24
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    Yes the e67 is in the same car with a custom ecm plug harness adapter so I can swap then in and out.

    I have also started with my stock tune and went from there a couple times just to make sure. My MAF table is damn near stock right now with the Bosch 60's, a 2.8, a ported/geared/modified rotor m62, and a few other mods. My fuel trims on my maf are damn near perfect too, save for maxing it out at 6200 rpm. This was one of the reasons for going e67....and 100x more tweaking ability with all the tables the e67 has over the p12.

    It is only on the p12 that I use the half values on the offsets. The e67 runs great on full value offsets.

  5. #25
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    I want to give a big thanks to lwrs10 for providing this info! I bought the Bosch injectors and have noticed an awesome improvement is idle quality and low speed drivability that was driving me nuts! These injectors replaced Siemens 80lb injectors I had in the car and I'm so much happier with how the car drives

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhantomGTO View Post
    I want to give a big thanks to lwrs10 for providing this info! I bought the Bosch injectors and have noticed an awesome improvement is idle quality and low speed drivability that was driving me nuts! These injectors replaced Siemens 80lb injectors I had in the car and I'm so much happier with how the car drives

    A lot of your problem was the garbage tune you had, with stock injector offsets and a totally fubared ve table. Also how you are maxing out your maf at half throttle and 15 pounds of boost because of the way it is installed. WhiIeI i have no doubt these Bosch injectors will run better than the injectors you had, a good 60% of your problem was your tune.
    Last edited by lwrs10; 08-19-2013 at 08:03 PM.

  7. #27
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    So did you ever clear up the "bad computer" issue? I'm looking at the 115# flow max ATM... I would just work it out myself but no point in 2 or more people doing the exact same work. I'd gladly work with someone else on it. That's part of the community mentality.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by armcclure View Post
    So did you ever clear up the "bad computer" issue? I'm looking at the 115# flow max ATM... I would just work it ounow, yself but no point in 2 or more people doing the exact same work. I'd gladly work with someone else on it. That's part of the community mentality.
    Computer is not bad. I have tuned 3 LSJ's now, and the other 2 computer offset tables behaved the same way.

  9. #29
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    What's your ifr and flow rate vs volts set at

    I bumped your thread on .net too.

  10. #30
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    im curious as well, since 80s are not calm on the turbo lsj im working on.

  11. #31
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    updated the first post.

  12. #32
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    Any new injector info for the LSJ?

  13. #33
    LSJs were pretty much unicorns when they were at their popularity back in the day and the total production numbers were very low. Now they are pretty much dinosaurs and most info if any on them is a decade old now. The few shops that specialize in Ecotecs would be your best shot if you can get them to talk with you. I wish I could find the correct part number for GMPP stage 2 42lb injectors. The 60lb Siemens idle like crap.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalmanimal View Post
    LSJs were pretty much unicorns when they were at their popularity back in the day and the total production numbers were very low. Now they are pretty much dinosaurs and most info if any on them is a decade old now. The few shops that specialize in Ecotecs would be your best shot if you can get them to talk with you. I wish I could find the correct part number for GMPP stage 2 42lb injectors. The 60lb Siemens idle like crap.
    Yeah it seems like not too many people know about them these days. I am running the 42lbs injectors, but they say DEKA on them, they came with my car, looking into larger injectors but I am afraid of the issues people have with the 60s.

  15. #35
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    The GM Stage 2 injectors (42lbs/hr) say:

    Flow Rate 40.1598707171816 40.556121492134 41.0327850160376 41.42903579099 41.8262553942431 42.2225061691955 42.6991696930991 43.0963892963521 43.4926400713046 43.9693035952082 44.3655543701606 44.7627739734136 45.159024748366 45.6356882722697 46.0329078755227 46.4291586504751 46.9058221743787 47.3020729493311 47.6992925525842 48.0965121558372 48.413319010139 48.810538613392 49.1273454676938 49.4451211502962 49.7628968328987 50.0806725155011 50.3974793698029 50.7946989730559 51.1115058273577 51.5087254306108 51.8265011132132 52.064832875165 52.2227518881656

    When I use the Injector spreadsheets, the numbers are slightly different, what gives?

  16. #36
    Tuner JMsquared's Avatar
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    60 lb. injector minimum pulse setup LE5 SC Harrop E67 ECM

    Quote Originally Posted by lwrs10 View Post
    updated the first post.
    You referred to a minimum PW of .711 for the FIC650Bosch split spray injector, and and E67 ECM
    I have installed these in my 2.4 LE5.
    I am having a problem at idle, I cannot get them to adjust to Lambda 1.0 at idle...(PW 1.2-.6ms)
    I am running a manifold referenced regulator with nominal fuel pressure of 43.5PSI @ ATM pressure.
    My tune was spot on with the GM 42s, but it is rich now, not responding to MAF changes 3250Hz to 1000Hz...
    Help...
    Last edited by JMsquared; 02-02-2022 at 09:10 PM. Reason: wrong inj #
    2006 Cobalt SS 2.4 SC 5spd
    GMPP Stage 2 w\2 pass plate
    Bst ref FP Reg at tank, E67 ecm
    ZZP mid-length header\catted dwnpipe
    253 Whp so far

  17. #37
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    You could use the percent error verification method to solve for unknown injector data.
    make a base recording. add X% of additional fuel. If the next log doesn't show that X% being added exactly as commanded, then you can adjust the data until it does.
    This should be performed as a last ditch effort solution. I always recommend sending injectors out for characterization prior to attempting this method.
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  18. #38
    Tuner JMsquared's Avatar
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    CSSobstr,

    Thanks for answering,
    Sorry it took so long for me to get back to you...
    I did have data from FIC, my original tune was referencing MAP for the Offsets, I switched to Vacuum.
    That seemed to improve my Lambda.
    After the first log indicated .75Lambda from 1000-3250Hz, I adjusted MAF accordingly (-25%), but that only netted .82-.85...hmmm.
    I made a couple more reductions to MAF...but no reduction...I am hesitant to reduce MAF further, looking for other solutions.
    I seem to be against the minimum PW, I am seeing .6-.7ms in the idle and low load regions.
    We reduced fuel pressure to 37psi, and reset IFR to 57.5 to match, but I haven't studied the logs yet(just got home when I seen this)
    Any advice is appreciated.
    Last edited by JMsquared; 02-08-2022 at 05:28 PM. Reason: Site timed out?
    2006 Cobalt SS 2.4 SC 5spd
    GMPP Stage 2 w\2 pass plate
    Bst ref FP Reg at tank, E67 ecm
    ZZP mid-length header\catted dwnpipe
    253 Whp so far

  19. #39
    Tuner JMsquared's Avatar
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    Don't know what happened, Site posted only half the message...any idea where the rest went?
    2006 Cobalt SS 2.4 SC 5spd
    GMPP Stage 2 w\2 pass plate
    Bst ref FP Reg at tank, E67 ecm
    ZZP mid-length header\catted dwnpipe
    253 Whp so far

  20. #40
    Tuner JMsquared's Avatar
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    Do you mind sharing what you had to change.
    I am not getting a smooth idle, and I am dealing with .80-.90 lambda...
    Feeling lost...
    2006 Cobalt SS 2.4 SC 5spd
    GMPP Stage 2 w\2 pass plate
    Bst ref FP Reg at tank, E67 ecm
    ZZP mid-length header\catted dwnpipe
    253 Whp so far