Well, that's just it, I'm trying to, and at the moment it isnto following my commanded WG duty cycle. I did a bit more messing with it this morning, and it came up a little. However, I cant get my WG to go to 100% about 5500 like I'm commanding in my tables. It dips down like that picture shows.
'07 Solstice GXP. Mods - Tune, IC, CP, catless DP, ported intake manifold, ported TB, ported Head on the intake side, catback, K&N CAI, LV front brace, WERKS backbone, HPS pads up front, and HP+ pads in the read.
Have you tried adjusting your Pressure RPM Factor at all? Under Torque Management>SC/TC Boost Control>Pressure RPM Factor
Yours is currently set up to reduce pressure starting at 4000rpm's. My tune has my pressure factor going up, not down but there's many ways to tune so take what I write litely. I would recommend changing the 5000 and 6000 rpm numbers to the same that you have at 4000rpms and see how it performs.
interesting... I'll have to try that, thanks for the tip! I wont have the car again until tomorrow, so it will have to wait but that makes sense.
'07 Solstice GXP. Mods - Tune, IC, CP, catless DP, ported intake manifold, ported TB, ported Head on the intake side, catback, K&N CAI, LV front brace, WERKS backbone, HPS pads up front, and HP+ pads in the read.
your ignition base table looks really high and its because you left your ignition modifiers active while you tuned your ignition. most factory lnfs are sitting around 16* ignition with a factory turbocharger on pump gas. Im the only who has hit 20* on pump gas as far as i know but i had a lot of time spent in the cylinder head to prevent premature detonations.
your modifiers are interfering with your base ignition values.
as mentioned boost is also limited by the pressure rpm table. at the 5k cell your table is set to 22.87 psi and at 6k is set to 19.97 psi max allowable upper boost limit. if you want this table to still act as a safety device imo setting it to 2.675 (24.5 psi) or 2.709 (25 psi). If you wish this table to be disabled then lift all the values to 6.0 (73.2 psi, good luck hitting that).
as for your pid tables, i dont know if those are stock but if they are then they are far from ideal. I have only reviewed the GMPP pid tables and they look ok but yours are set to the slower of response side. Imo setting those to the gmpp kit tables to start with, the response of the wg solenoid will be much better than what you have in there now. This may also aid in holding pressure up top.
2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman
Also take a look at your Proportional Max table. Torque Management>SC/TC Boost Control>Proportional Max
It jumps up and down quite a bit. I have my entire table except for the 0 column set to the same value. Again - different ways to tune but if you try something different and learn from it, it could be good.
Great info here... thank you guys!! Couple of quick thoughts / comments.
First on the ignition tables. I did leave my ignition modifiers fairly high (ECT, burst, dynamic, and IAT to name a few) because I thought that they would only come into play when their respective conditions were met. For example, why would the ECT table start to pull spark while the coolant is still at a safe temp level? I always thought of them as a safety net in case I wasn't watching something as close as I needed, but sounds like that was wrong? The tables are certainly high, but in driving and tuning the commanded spark has never gotten to those levels. Max observed while WOT is 15.5 deg at upper RPM. Must be the modifier tables dictating this? Opti spark for the most part is 20 deg added to the base spark map except for idle and high RPM WOT, where it is 5 deg and 25 deg respectively.
Second, awesome on the pressure RPM table.. I was a bit lost on what those values meant, but now know where to set them. 2.675 sounds like a good safe spot for the time being, maybe 2.709+ when everything else is dialled in.
Third, regarding those PID tables. I'll have to go over those again for sure. I was messing with them just trying to get a better understanding of what the effects were based on what Bill was saying earlier in this post. I'll take a look at what the GMPP tables use and probably just reset to those. My turbo does not spool close to the .485 sec max that it could. Much more like 1.1 sec, so some nice gains could be made.
Lastly, to Jimmy's point on the Prop Max Table, I've typically left this table alone. Back when the car was running like total crap (100% commanded boost after 21% throttle too), I found that this table was the root cause. The tuner who I purchased this from had the entire table set to 327 which caused this instability. I dropped it to 100, and saw the same thing. When left to stock values the car is a lot happier... Are the selected set points just way to high? Also, sounds like that 0 column should be left alone.
Thanks again for the help, thought the car was running great but sounds like there is a lot of improvements left. Woo!
'07 Solstice GXP. Mods - Tune, IC, CP, catless DP, ported intake manifold, ported TB, ported Head on the intake side, catback, K&N CAI, LV front brace, WERKS backbone, HPS pads up front, and HP+ pads in the read.
I wouldn't say that your setpoints are way too high but in my opinion they shouldn't bounce around like they are currently set. Take a look at your 80, 100 and 120 columns from 3000rpm up to 6300. Each cell increases or decreases from one rpm to the next in each column and at 5000rpm, you have your biggest dip.
The lower load columns are okay because you're not so concerned with the boost in those columns but at 80% and above, you're probably in "haul booty" mode with the pedal to the floor and if you're telling the ECM that your desired boost should jump up and down like it is set, you'll probably see that in the log just like the photos you posted earlier. If it's running great, you're on the right track and yes you do have plenty of room for improvements. Try setting your 80% column at 70 from 3k up, your 100% at 80 from 3k up and your 120% at 90 from 3k up and see how that looks on the scanner. At WOT, you'll quickly jump from 80 to 100 and then to 120% load and once you're at the 120% load, you'll no longer be asking the ECM to adjust from 91 down to 80 and then back up to 90. Hopefully that makes sense....
Well that pressure RPM table just cleared up all of my desired boost dips.. awesome! Just another thought on that though, does the ECU cut back on desired boost if it "sees" boost spike coming based on the pressure RPM table? If it does setting the table to 6, and really dialling in the WG tables makes the most sense.
As for everything else, more testing / observation is required to know whats up.
'07 Solstice GXP. Mods - Tune, IC, CP, catless DP, ported intake manifold, ported TB, ported Head on the intake side, catback, K&N CAI, LV front brace, WERKS backbone, HPS pads up front, and HP+ pads in the read.
Good question and while I can't say that it does for sure, I would say that "it should".
Dialing in your WG table to keep from having to run it ~100 to get the boost you want is what I would do. I run around 3.5-3.7 on my pressure rpm factor above 3000rpm but I'm also close to 4000 feet in altitude. My WG table doesn't go past 75 but you also have to take into account you DAL table and since yours is high in the 100% column from 5000 to 6320rpm, you'll want to drop that back down to 255 and drop your WG table by 25% or more if you do decide to disable the pressure rpm table. Once your happy with the way it is performing, you can increase the WG and/or DAL tables a percent or two at a time to fine tune it.
Why would I want to pull the DAL table back in the upper RPM ranges. I could just put it back at 255 since it doest get up there, but what would be the point?
'07 Solstice GXP. Mods - Tune, IC, CP, catless DP, ported intake manifold, ported TB, ported Head on the intake side, catback, K&N CAI, LV front brace, WERKS backbone, HPS pads up front, and HP+ pads in the read.
You never got your cammanded base ignition values because your modifiers are effecting the overall output 8)
Derivative is for slow valve control so idk why we really have it on in an engine application. Everything moves to fast it's not really needed. The system can be controlled perfectly fine e as just a simple P.I. system. The best description I found with easy access was on wikapedia. Its fairly simple way of putting the base controls of pid systems.
I recommended putting it back to 255 if you do disable the pressure rpm table because you may end up overshooting your boost goals.Originally Posted by hockeymandan2828
the true maximum value for the dal table has been noted by many as 255. anything over this value gives inconsistent and hard to control results.
pressure rpm is a boost limiting table. think of it as a safeguard. if you set it to 6 like i normally do you will want to monitor your boost frequently to check for system or mechanical errors.
2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman
Ok, quick update.. Made a number of corrections as you guys mentioned, and most of m issues went away. Specifically, my max desired boost goes to 100% finally and it is smoother to drive since I backed off my PID tables in the lower pressure differential areas. I still have the timing issue where spark does not go where it is commanded to, even though I have removed most of my timing modifiers. Do I really just have to set all the timing modifiers to 0 even if I never run in those areas? I always liked having those as a safety net. Pics of low timing, tune, and entire log are attached. Thanks!!
8-24-15 drive home work.hpl
08-24-2015V1.hpt
Timing 2.JPG
Timing.JPG
'07 Solstice GXP. Mods - Tune, IC, CP, catless DP, ported intake manifold, ported TB, ported Head on the intake side, catback, K&N CAI, LV front brace, WERKS backbone, HPS pads up front, and HP+ pads in the read.
I don't see anything really wrong in your tune that is driving your timing down. As a test, raise your Optimum Torque table in the 100 to 200% columns to 100 across the entire range and see how it performs. Looking at your log pics, I would suggest logging a fewer items. Take out the MAP (psi) since your logging Boost LoRes and remove one of the IAT(F*) since you're logging it twice even though the numbers aren't the same and possibly remove CAT(F*). Seeing different numbers IAT(F*) where you're logging it twice, makes me think that maybe you're asking for too much information at once and the scanner isn't keeping up.
As another test try running a log where you're just logging RPM, ETC%, ETC Pedal, Speed, Air Load, Boost Lo Res, Advance, Retard, Fuel Pressure, IAT2 and Lambda. Just shooting from the hip but it could help rule out a scanner issue.
After looking at the last log you posted I have one more suggestion - if at all possible, find a decent section of road where you not on and off the throttle so much. If you can run a steady state, it will make it easier to see what's going on. How does your timing look at startup? Is it steady or choppy?
Hey Jimmy, I can give the OT tables and removing excess data a shot here today. Certainly worth a shot. As for the better road, I'll have to wait a bit to do that. I live in metro Detroit, so smooth roads that aren't congested can be tough to find.
Timing at start up (and idle) is choppy right now. Figured I'd go after that next.
One other quick note, I was talking to someone at work who mentioned that there were stored timing offset tables that we do not have access to. Even more surprising GM doesn't even have access to them. Anyway, these tables essentially learn in observed knock and pull timing out of the base tables and keep it that way to protect the motor. Trying a couple things to clear out those tables in the next day or so as well. Might have some luck there too.
'07 Solstice GXP. Mods - Tune, IC, CP, catless DP, ported intake manifold, ported TB, ported Head on the intake side, catback, K&N CAI, LV front brace, WERKS backbone, HPS pads up front, and HP+ pads in the read.
I noticed your Detroit location after posting and figured that might be the case with the roads. Look forward to hearing how the change to the OT table works for you. It works great for me like that. When you get to tuning your start up and idle, the OT, MS, OS and DAL tables play an important role in making them solid and once you get it figured out, you can make your timing exactly what you want it to be.
Last section highly unlikely.
At best that would be a trim feature per drive cycle. Along the lines of fuel trim style of adjustment but with the tables we currently have there is nothing holding anyone back from achieving commanded timing all the time. The effects of that feature would show in a recording and it would be blatantly obvious when comparing the tune file values to the scan file. I have had retard from random mechanical noise but not from any events I could not control.
I would need some strong evidence to call that one true. That's my personal opinion.
When you flash the lnf ecu with hpt it performs a hard reset. The only thing that I notice no change in is the ecu base log information,flash counter/time clock etc..
ssoverbooster, just a question I have. when I adjust my timing and flash it back to ECM I don't notice any KR until i drive awhile shut it off and go for another drive. Kr shows up. Seems there is some learning going on with the ECM?
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