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Thread: Fuel curve BFXR6T

  1. #41
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    For those interested I have done a write up on Speed Density. See:

    http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...n-Ford-Turbo-6

    Feedback welcome.

  2. #42
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    Jet's numbers seem to tally with the 240 awkw that the good tuners are getting on a Territory Turbo with standard injectors. 240 awkw would translate to approximately 320 engine kw or about 256 rwkw on a Falcon. The Territory fuel pump seems to be able to support about 320awkw or about 400 engine kw so I am not sure if this is better than the Falcon turbos fuel pump.

    With his graphs and my logged data I suspect I will find the injector flow multiplier that gets my program closer (it predicts about 12psi @ 4000rpm, 10psi @ 4400rpm then down to about 6 psi at 5300rpm). At this stage I predict 90% duty cycle and SCT is logging between 85 - 87% so I am out a bit.

    Thanks Jet, there is a great deal of information in these graphs
    Last edited by DarrylC; 08-12-2014 at 07:04 PM.

  3. #43
    Advanced Tuner JETURBO's Avatar
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    Iam really glad you can see iam not talking rubbish and am very keen to help out ANY one who needs it but for the love of god please show that you know what your doing and that you have the ability to understand what should happen once you start calibrating !
    As i mentioned the stock injectors are limited but you can see many factors limit output and can you run say 15psi off the stockers ?? Sure as long as your ok with 3psi at the end lol, many ways to skin a cat and some tuners get bad names with what they have done in the past ( ie dyno wog cranking out 300rwkw off stock injectors back in the day :/ )

    The stock calibration in say a fgxr6t is brilliant it really is and bulk hrs should always go into understanding what ford are doing on a stock level and a very clear picture develops what you want to do next !

    Iam far from an expert and will never push that crap as i have tuners i look up to and FULLY respect due to their knowledge and efforts

    I love the fact your putting pencil to paper daz as this is exactly what i did when i started as it becomes clear further more i done so much reading/logging/night school/buying tools/buying ebooks/hiring dyno time and then buying a dyno with a great mate of mine just to satisfy the thirst for knowledge and satisfaction of doing it our selves !

    I have mountains of data and dyno graphs to support what ive always suspected and learnt along the way on these cars and you do not just get it first pop its a huge exercise to complete a tune from scratch but id like to help in some areas where i could not get answers but you gotta want it first

    This is the last tune we completed and iam very happy with our efforts you may or may not agree and yes there is always a reason for what you see on a graph, ask away if your brain has got you to that part

    Both cars have ID1000's and big fuel systems

    Last one i had to borrow a mates dyno as ours is gone now



    Last edited by JETURBO; 08-12-2014 at 06:56 PM.
    FG F6 400+RWKW .....10.9 @ 132mph.... FIRST 10sec F6 in SA ( sold )
    DYNO DYNAMICS 1200hp ...... Tuning weapon..... ( sold )
    OFFICIAL JONNY TIG INDUSTRIES SUPPLIER ..... Biggest and lightest intercoolers for B and F falcons
    SUBARU BRZ ......AVO TURBO KIT coming......soon
    VF R8 CLUBSPORT SV...... 340FWKW.....ASE BIG SINGLE KIT .....one day

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by DarrylC View Post
    Jet's numbers seem to tally with the 240 awkw that the good tuners are getting on a Territory Turbo with standard injectors. 240 awkw would translate to approximately 320 engine kw or about 256 rwkw on a Falcon. The Territory fuel pump seems to be able to support about 320awkw
    or about 400 engine kw so I am not sure if this is better than the Falcon turbos fuel pump.

    With his graphs and my logged data I suspect I will find the injector flow multiplier that gets my program closer (it predicts about 12psi @ 4000rpm, 10psi @ 4400rpm then down to about 6 psi at 5300rpm). At this stage I predict 90% duty cycle and SCT is logging between 85 - 87% so I am out a bit.

    Thank Jet, there is a great deal of information in these graphs
    Your predictions seem spot on from what I have been seeing. Will post up graphs from my observations once done.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by JETURBO View Post

    This is the last tune we completed and iam very happy with our efforts you may or may not agree and yes there is always a reason for what you see on a graph, ask away if your brain has got you to that part

    Both cars have ID1000's and big fuel systems

    Last one i had to borrow a mates dyno as ours is gone now
    Not sure what you want but I do like run 2 as it has a very smooth boost curve (open loop?) and a great AFR transfer without the usual AFR dip coming onto boost. Would be a lovely drive. Car is making good power for 15lb boost.

    Not sure why in run 1 you did not drop the lambda back to 0.8 between 130 and 150 kph just where you have the hump in the power curve but that may feel nice on the road.

    Have you tried running p100? Awesome fuel. The only change in my car was p100 -> 98 octane and power went from 276awkw -> 252awkw so the turbo falcons really like it (same dyno but with better conditions for the 98 run). Also a mate has a TTG running 15lb boost went from 330awks to 363awkw with p100 so in both cases about 10% extra. E85 would be better again buy I travel in the country and it is unobtainium whereas p100 is at most United service stations.

    Anyway you have given me quite a bit of data from the previous posts, now to sit down with pen an paper and do some calculations and try and reverse engineer what is happening with the injectors. Anything that gets me closer to the truth is of greatly appreciated.

  6. #46
    Advanced Tuner JETURBO's Avatar
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    Both cars on 98 but we had e85 and P100 in SA over 5years ago so its a well walked path for us

    Tip : AFR's are not as critical as most think hence why you can see really "wavey" graphs and still achieve some what of an ok end result

    ( this is in no way a reflection on the tuner )






    Food for thought
    FG F6 400+RWKW .....10.9 @ 132mph.... FIRST 10sec F6 in SA ( sold )
    DYNO DYNAMICS 1200hp ...... Tuning weapon..... ( sold )
    OFFICIAL JONNY TIG INDUSTRIES SUPPLIER ..... Biggest and lightest intercoolers for B and F falcons
    SUBARU BRZ ......AVO TURBO KIT coming......soon
    VF R8 CLUBSPORT SV...... 340FWKW.....ASE BIG SINGLE KIT .....one day

  7. #47
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    Jet,
    Agree about the AFR issue. On petrol my car makes more power with Lambda around 0.82, on LPG it is between 0.84 and 0.89 but 0.86 seems good. I have been able to get my petrol between 0.78 - 0.80 with LPG running 0.82 - 0.86 on the same tune. Took a fair bit of effort to find the optimal points for each. Car is just on the limit of the petrol pump at 1 bar boost, LPG can go further

  8. #48
    Advanced Tuner JETURBO's Avatar
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    What car, what pump daz ?
    FG F6 400+RWKW .....10.9 @ 132mph.... FIRST 10sec F6 in SA ( sold )
    DYNO DYNAMICS 1200hp ...... Tuning weapon..... ( sold )
    OFFICIAL JONNY TIG INDUSTRIES SUPPLIER ..... Biggest and lightest intercoolers for B and F falcons
    SUBARU BRZ ......AVO TURBO KIT coming......soon
    VF R8 CLUBSPORT SV...... 340FWKW.....ASE BIG SINGLE KIT .....one day

  9. #49
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    Jet,
    Car is a Territory turbo with the standard fuel pump. I would have thought the fuel pump was the same as an XR6 turbo but it may not be as it seems good for well over 320awkw (about 420 engine kw). Not sure how many kw mine is producing but the pump is holding over 70psi on full boost at full rpm so not out yet (pretty hard to read when driving and on full noise!). I have not checked if the return line was still flowing as I don't have the equipment for that. Anyway Lambda was 0.80 just as she changed gear (I saw the commanded lambda rise so I am guessing it is something to do with torque management for gear changes).

    LPG pump is a standard Australian LPG warehouse JTG pump which I have wired a MSD fuel pump controller in to get it to flow at higher rpms (as well as some in tank mods to help flow). It was done and dusted by 280awkw without the booster.

    This is where my interest in how the car was fuelled started. LPG injectors flow very differently to petrol injectors so you not only have the petrol injector to get correct but then have to get a compromise that allows LPG injector to be good as well. (LPG injectors flow like a flat line with a down hill slope on the end as the pulse width increases).

    P.S. Did you log the dyno runs with SCT LiveLink?
    Last edited by DarrylC; 08-13-2014 at 12:00 AM.

  10. #50
    OK some charts from start to end of first stage with mods as mentioned at start of thread.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  11. #51
    More boost vs mods and out of injector.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  12. #52
    Out of injector vs tuned id 1000s
    Attached Images Attached Images

  13. #53
    Final run on its own.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  14. #54
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    mycomputeratesme,

    Excellent set of graphs, you must be happy with this.

    Will also digest these but it seems to align with some of my earlier predictions.

    Yes, small mods can make a big difference. I had good fuelling until I replaced a cat, got a lot more power on petrol but the LPG system ran out of supply at 4500rpm (fine before). Suppose as Jet said depends on health of car and mods done. I put an FG intake manifold on my Terrirory and a lot more power, economy and a lot less noise all at the same boost (12psi).

  15. #55
    Yeah I am happy for first time on a ford for sure. And thank you for your input.

  16. #56
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    there's a write up about maxing injectors on one of the turbo forums

  17. #57
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    Darryl,
    The fuel pump in my territory got me out to 18psi then fell over.
    From what I can remember the territory pump is only a 110lph unit