2014 Mustang GT 5.0 on E85

[SS_bnoon_SS]

So years ago, I ran my Silverado SS on E85 with basically nothing more than telling a lie to the computer... I told the computer that the injectors were 35% smaller than they actually were (42# injectors installed, I told the ECU they were 27.3#). Aside from that, I did add spark and some minor fuel trim adjustments, but no stoich or command fuel changes, and nothing else was "needed" to run E85. Is there an injector constant on the Ford tunes to do something similar with my new 2014 Track Pack 5.0, or would there be a different E85 tuning strategy all together on this platform? Just wondering what some of you have done before I click "buy" for my third in my lifetime HPTuner setup.

[wbt]

So years ago, I ran my Silverado SS on E85 with basically nothing more than telling a lie to the computer... I told the computer that the injectors were 35% smaller than they actually were (42# injectors installed, I told the ECU they were 27.3#). Aside from that, I did add spark and some minor fuel trim adjustments, but no stoich or command fuel changes, and nothing else was "needed" to run E85. Is there an injector constant on the Ford tunes to do something similar with my new 2014 Track Pack 5.0, or would there be a different E85 tuning strategy all together on this platform? Just wondering what some of you have done before I click "buy" for my third in my lifetime HPTuner setup.

For these cars you:

1. Install 47lbs. injectors.
2. Adjust the AFR for e85
3. Set the WOT lambda
4. Adjust the borderline and optimum power spark tables.
5. Enjoy!

[SS_bnoon_SS]

Thats a similar strategy that some did to gm cars too, before some started just changing the injector constant. Hummmm...

[wbt]

Thats a similar strategy that some did to gm cars too, before some started just changing the injector constant. Hummmm...

The problem with "faking" the injectors is that the stock injectors are maxed out when using e85, physically. They are at max duty cycle at wot and you don't want that.

[SS_bnoon_SS]

Right, I would still be upgrading the injectors.

[schaid]

My car made less power on e85 w/ stock injectors than a stock car...

AFR: 9.765
WOT Lambda 0.87
Spark...in the high 20's low 30's

Trapping 120mph currently. Going back on the 27th looking for a 10.99.

[SS_bnoon_SS]

My car made less power on e85 w/ stock injectors than a stock car...

AFR: 9.765
WOT Lambda 0.87
Spark...in the high 20's low 30's

Trapping 120mph currently. Going back on the 27th looking for a 10.99.

Stock injectors are known to max out duty cycle on near stock vehicles running E85. No doubt that's why you lost power.

[Justinjor]

.87 Lambda is very lean for a coyote. Give it the fuel it needs and I bet you see gains.

[wbt]

.87 Lambda is very lean for a coyote. Give it the fuel it needs and I bet you see gains.

That all depends on what his commanded AFR is.

Most leave that value alone from the factory default when using gasoline.

That value changes when using e85.

Factory default is 14.08. Using .87 lambda that would put it at 12.24 AFR. Not out of bounds by any means however most of the better tunes will command about 12.00. Some tuners like to run a bit richer.

[Justinjor]

That all depends on what his commanded AFR is.

Most leave that value alone from the factory default when using gasoline.

That value changes when using e85.

Factory default is 14.08. Using .87 lambda that would put it at 12.24 AFR. Not out of bounds by any means however most of the better tunes will command about 12.00. Some tuners like to run a bit richer.

And this is exactly why it's so much easier to speak strictly in terms of lambda. OP already stated he was using E85 so the AFR number is irrelevant and yes, I agree there's not much reason to change the stoich unless your fuel changes. E10 is at pretty much every pump so the 14.08 would be correct.

I've spent about 25-30 hours on the dyno with my car and know exactly what it likes and how it responds best. I saw absolutely 0 gains when leaning it out past .83 lambda and in fact, I lost a little whp the leaner it got. Of course, boost and nitrous applications are different so I'm speaking strictly in terms of a n/a car. These motors love the fuel and respond best when there is plenty of it. I see no reason why anyone would ever need to run any leaner than .84 at WOT but to each their own. Sure you can run it leaner but if there are no gains, why would you want to? Pistons are already fragile enough so I see no reason to increase the EGTs by means of a leaner mixture.

Just my $.02 though, YMMV.

[Gremlin85]

And this is exactly why it's so much easier to speak strictly in terms of lambda. OP already stated he was using E85 so the AFR number is irrelevant and yes, I agree there's not much reason to change the stoich unless your fuel changes. E10 is at pretty much every pump so the 14.08 would be correct.

I've spent about 25-30 hours on the dyno with my car and know exactly what it likes and how it responds best. I saw absolutely 0 gains when leaning it out past .83 lambda and in fact, I lost a little whp the leaner it got. Of course, boost and nitrous applications are different so I'm speaking strictly in terms of a n/a car. These motors love the fuel and respond best when there is plenty of it. I see no reason why anyone would ever need to run any leaner than .84 at WOT but to each their own. Sure you can run it leaner but if there are no gains, why would you want to? Pistons are already fragile enough so I see no reason to increase the EGTs by means of a leaner mixture.

Just my $.02 though, YMMV.

I found this to be pretty on-point. I run a .846 LAMBDA running 93 octane and that's where I get the best power with everything else being in check.

[wbt]

And this is exactly why it's so much easier to speak strictly in terms of lambda. OP already stated he was using E85 so the AFR number is irrelevant and yes, I agree there's not much reason to change the stoich unless your fuel changes. E10 is at pretty much every pump so the 14.08 would be correct.

I've spent about 25-30 hours on the dyno with my car and know exactly what it likes and how it responds best. I saw absolutely 0 gains when leaning it out past .83 lambda and in fact, I lost a little whp the leaner it got. Of course, boost and nitrous applications are different so I'm speaking strictly in terms of a n/a car. These motors love the fuel and respond best when there is plenty of it. I see no reason why anyone would ever need to run any leaner than .84 at WOT but to each their own. Sure you can run it leaner but if there are no gains, why would you want to? Pistons are already fragile enough so I see no reason to increase the EGTs by means of a leaner mixture.

Just my $.02 though, YMMV.

I agree these cars like to run more fuel and also agree AFR is a result of lambda commanded against the stoich value.

Changing fuels adds to the mix. One may use 9.8 as the stoich value for their e85 tune and command .87 lmbda against it. Maybe one chooses to run VP c85 where the stoich value is 9.6. Both are instances where the commanded lambda may be different from gasoline.

[VitViper]

Car makes no power on E85 at .87 lambda, actually loses some ponies. Lambda with E85 is maybe .1-.2 leaner than pump gas. High 20's/low 30's for WOT ignition is highly overadvanced, our car didn't make power anywhere near that.

[schaid]

And this is exactly why it's so much easier to speak strictly in terms of lambda. OP already stated he was using E85 so the AFR number is irrelevant and yes, I agree there's not much reason to change the stoich unless your fuel changes. E10 is at pretty much every pump so the 14.08 would be correct.

I've spent about 25-30 hours on the dyno with my car and know exactly what it likes and how it responds best. I saw absolutely 0 gains when leaning it out past .83 lambda and in fact, I lost a little whp the leaner it got. Of course, boost and nitrous applications are different so I'm speaking strictly in terms of a n/a car. These motors love the fuel and respond best when there is plenty of it. I see no reason why anyone would ever need to run any leaner than .84 at WOT but to each their own. Sure you can run it leaner but if there are no gains, why would you want to? Pistons are already fragile enough so I see no reason to increase the EGTs by means of a leaner mixture.

Just my $.02 though, YMMV.

EGT's don't go any higher than 1200 at wot...but the argument you present with zero gain and some drop off...looks like I'll be going to 0.85. Thanks for the research.

[Justinjor]

I agree these cars like to run more fuel and also agree AFR is a result of lambda commanded against the stoich value.

Changing fuels adds to the mix. One may use 9.8 as the stoich value for their e85 tune and command .87 lmbda against it. Maybe one chooses to run VP c85 where the stoich value is 9.6. Both are instances where the commanded lambda may be different from gasoline.

If someone is changing fuels that regularly, I would expect them to have access to tuning software and the ability to update the stoich in the tune. That's the beauty of the new computers, once the car is dialed in, updating for a different fuel is really simple. I have a ethanol % spreadsheet that calculates stoich based on pump gas an E85 in the tank in the event I need to fill up on a road trip. I'm OCD about my STFT. I don't like anything outside of a 3% variance from targeted.

[wbt]

If someone is changing fuels that regularly, I would expect them to have access to tuning software and the ability to update the stoich in the tune. That's the beauty of the new computers, once the car is dialed in, updating for a different fuel is really simple. I have a ethanol % spreadsheet that calculates stoich based on pump gas an E85 in the tank in the event I need to fill up on a road trip. I'm OCD about my STFT. I don't like anything outside of a 3% variance from targeted.

Yes hence HP Tuners.

I also have a spreadsheet put together for various fuels. Makes adjusting the tune for the fuel chosen pretty simple.

[Justinjor]

Yes hence HP Tuners.

I also have a spreadsheet put together for various fuels. Makes adjusting the tune for the fuel chosen pretty simple.

You sound like me. lol

[LS4PWR]

@wbt can you possibly send me your spreadsheet as I'm pretty new to Coyote's? I've always been GM myself and just cobverted over to a 2012 Coyote. Any help would be greatly appreciated sir!

[decipha]

this is 5 years old