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Thread: Ghost cam issues - 13 mustang GT

  1. #181
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    Can someone please reupload the guide or a template?

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by mat_holland View Post
    Can someone please reupload the guide or a template?
    UPDATED 8-11-19 - improved off idle transition and better control of cams moving into lope position at startup based on ECT

    MANUAL TRANSMISSION CAR
    NO CATS - OFFROAD X PIPE ONLY -cam tune dumps unburned fuel down the exhaust because of the random misfiring. It can cause dangerous heat if you try it with catalytic converters installed

    It's a solid tune, try it and give feedback, we can make it better.
    Car drives great, chops like the old muscle cars did and never tries to stall with AC on or off.

    Here's what needs to be done. After that I'll explain the changes if anyone is curious.
    Compare a stock tune to the attached tune.
    Make the changes you see in the comparison in the following areas:

    Engine>Idle>General
    Engine>Idle>RPM
    Engine>Idle>Airflow

    Engine>Airflow>Variable Camshaft>Mapped Points
    Engine>Airflow>Variable Camshaft>Distance Tables
    Engine>Airflow>Variable Camshaft>Max Phasing Limit EOT
    Engine>Airflow>Variable Camshaft>Combustion Stability
    Engine>Airflow>Variable Camshaft>Best Drivability
    Engine>Airflow>Variable Camshaft>Optimal Stability

    Engine>Spark>Advance>Base [8-11-19]
    Engine>Spark>Advance>Borderline
    Engine>Spark>Advance>MBT
    Engine>Spark>Advance>Idle Spark Advance
    Engine>Spark>Advance>Transient [8-11-19]

    Engine>Torque Management>Driver Demand [8-11-19]

    Engine Diagnostics>Misfire>Detection

    The general idea is to use a mapped point with good valve overlap, that's already in the stock tune, and make the car choose that mapped point at idle.
    You should get a solid lope idle but then when you take off, transition normally through mapped points in fuel economy mode like always.
    Mapped points and distance tables are set to reduce jerking the cams around when you let off the gas during gear changes.
    Best Drivability table is maxed out so it is ignored by ECU.

    The spark tables are adjusted to lower the spark advance at idle so you get a good chop.
    Surrounding spark tables are adjusted to make the ECU happier to choose the MP targeted.

    Idle control needs to be dashpot, this is why all the dashpot stuff, you still use Torque control Decel though, don't toggle that.
    Min vss needs to be 0. Also Min dashpot enable airflow at 0 causes dashpot control as soon as you start the car, you don't have to tap the gas.

    Combustion stability tables help to ease the cams into overlap position as the car warms up instead of going straight to overlap as soon as you start it.
    I saw this behavior in a Lund tune and I like it.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by GapRider; 08-12-2019 at 02:37 PM.
    2019 C7 Stingray M7 - long tube headers, 6.30/6.22 226/238 cam, supporting stuff, DOD and VVT delete.
    Stock everything else

  3. #183
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    You didn’t attach a tune only a log.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill88stang View Post
    You didn’t attach a tune only a log.
    sorry, tune attached
    2019 C7 Stingray M7 - long tube headers, 6.30/6.22 226/238 cam, supporting stuff, DOD and VVT delete.
    Stock everything else

  5. #185
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    Thank you for sharing your updated findings

  6. #186
    can you provide your stock tune to see comparaison ?

  7. #187
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    can someone reupload the pdf instructions?

  8. #188
    Advanced Tuner GapRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mat_holland View Post
    can someone reupload the pdf instructions?
    Here's my stock tune but it can be any stock tune (atleast for the 11-14's that have same strategy I think).
    I believe you'll see the same differences no matter.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    2019 C7 Stingray M7 - long tube headers, 6.30/6.22 226/238 cam, supporting stuff, DOD and VVT delete.
    Stock everything else

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by GapRider View Post
    MANUAL TRANSMISSION CAR
    Here's what needs to be done. After that I'll explain the changes if anyone is curious.
    I've got a solid tune, better than the one I previously posted because I've logged and learned some more.
    Car drives great, chops like the old muscle cars did and never tries to stall with AC on or off.

    Compare a stock tune to the attached tune.
    Make the changes you see in the comparison in the following areas:

    Engine>Idle>General
    Engine>Idle>RPM
    Engine>Idle>Airflow

    Engine>Airflow>Variable Camshaft>Mapped Points
    Engine>Airflow>Variable Camshaft>Distance Tables
    Engine>Airflow>Variable Camshaft>Max Phasing Limit EOT
    Engine>Airflow>Variable Camshaft>Combustion Stability
    Engine>Airflow>Variable Camshaft>Best Drivability
    Engine>Airflow>Variable Camshaft>Optimal Stability

    Engine>Spark>Advance>Borderline
    Engine>Spark>Advance>MBT
    Engine>Spark>Advance>Idle Spark Advance

    Engine Diagnostics>Misfire>Detection

    The general idea is to use a mapped point with good valve overlap, that's already in the stock tune, and make the car choose that mapped point at idle.
    You should get a solid lope idle but then when you take off, transition normally through mapped points in fuel economy mode like always.
    Mapped points and distance tables are set to reduce jerking the cams around when you let off the gas during gear changes.
    Best Drivability table is maxed out so it is ignored by ECU.

    The spark tables are adjusted to lower the spark advance at idle so you get a good chop.
    Surrounding spark tables are adjusted to make the ECU happier to choose the MP targeted.

    Idle control needs to be dashpot, this is why all the dashpot stuff, you still use Torque control Decel though, don't toggle that.
    Min vss needs to be 0. Also Min dashpot enable airflow at 0 causes dashpot control as soon as you start the car, you don't have to tap the gas.

    Combustion stability tables help to ease the cams into overlap position as the car warms up instead of going straight to overlap as soon as you start it.
    I saw this behavior in a Lund tune and I like it.
    Thanks for that!

    What about on an auto car? Same steps, or are there issues with an auto car?

  10. #190
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    I don?t know about auto - it is loaded more at idle in drive. I would load this tune and log. Maybe you?ll have to bump drive idle speed.
    I?m uploading an updated tune today that improves off idle transition and better control over cam position easing into lope position after startup, depending on ECT

  11. #191
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    updated - post #182
    2019 C7 Stingray M7 - long tube headers, 6.30/6.22 226/238 cam, supporting stuff, DOD and VVT delete.
    Stock everything else

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by GapRider View Post

    Idle control needs to be dashpot, this is why all the dashpot stuff, you still use Torque control Decel though, don't toggle that.
    Min vss needs to be 0. Also Min dashpot enable airflow at 0 causes dashpot control as soon as you start the car, you don't have to tap the gas.
    I have never found a way to avoid blipping the throttle. I'm using the same settings too... The car starts in idle feedback and there is no way to exit it that I see in the tune until a decel occurs causing it go in torque control.

    Right now I have it where Emissions mode chops after 120F and phases seamlessly into Optimal Stability - with a blip of the throttle right after start of course

    I believe there are Emissions entry/exit parameters in the tune but HPT doesn't expose them. It would be neat if we could take advantage of Emissions Control mode since it follows the distance table but ALSO uses idle feedback making the most stable idle possible with chop!
    Knock Retard is the reduction or prevention of knock by lowering ignition timing:

    (+) Adding Knock Retard = Reducing Timing. PCM is seeing knock.
    (--) Lowering Knock Retard = Increasing Timing. PCM isn't seeing knock.
    __________________________________________________ ________

    2014 Mustang GT Premium. VMP Gen2R Supercharged with an FTI 3000rpm Converter. JLT, BMR, Steeda, Viking, etc.
    Don't fix it if it ain't broken | Maximum effort gets maximum results

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackbolt22 View Post
    I have never found a way to avoid blipping the throttle. I'm using the same settings too... The car starts in idle feedback and there is no way to exit it that I see in the tune until a decel occurs causing it go in torque control.

    Right now I have it where Emissions mode chops after 120F and phases seamlessly into Optimal Stability - with a blip of the throttle right after start of course

    I believe there are Emissions entry/exit parameters in the tune but HPT doesn't expose them. It would be neat if we could take advantage of Emissions Control mode since it follows the distance table but ALSO uses idle feedback making the most stable idle possible with chop!
    I'm pretty sure the min VSS and min dashpot enable changed that for me, makes me wonder if there something else different. Is your DD table a lot different from stock?
    Also, all my dashpot parameters have been set to work, not the factory values, did you change all of them (a lot of them)?
    It would be cool to confirm what's required not to have to blip
    2019 C7 Stingray M7 - long tube headers, 6.30/6.22 226/238 cam, supporting stuff, DOD and VVT delete.
    Stock everything else

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by GapRider View Post
    I'm pretty sure the min VSS and min dashpot enable changed that for me, makes me wonder if there something else different. Is your DD table a lot different from stock?
    Also, all my dashpot parameters have been set to work, not the factory values, did you change all of them (a lot of them)?
    It would be cool to confirm what's required not to have to blip
    I can work with you on ideas. I've been wanting to know this for a long time.

    So normally I have torque based decel off and DO use dashpot so naturally all of this is populated and looks like yours on the front page. This is my standard tune.

    Now my ghost cam tune is exactly the same except torque based is on, VSS is 0mph but I leave all of my dashpot parameters in tact. Originally I had enable airflow at .05 and dashpot vss at 3mph but I made those 0 to match yours to see if that's why it WASN'T working like you said.. No change.

    If you could post a log of yours from startup with the ghostcam tune you posted last so I can compare to mine that would be awesome! Don't touch the throttle either, just turn the key to start The log would need cam angles, mapped points, and all sources to be useful. I am almost disbelief that it's possible because even some videos on the internet of ghost cams tune done by very popular company show the driver blipping the throttle to activate.... If you've discovered a way I sure want to know what setting lol.
    Knock Retard is the reduction or prevention of knock by lowering ignition timing:

    (+) Adding Knock Retard = Reducing Timing. PCM is seeing knock.
    (--) Lowering Knock Retard = Increasing Timing. PCM isn't seeing knock.
    __________________________________________________ ________

    2014 Mustang GT Premium. VMP Gen2R Supercharged with an FTI 3000rpm Converter. JLT, BMR, Steeda, Viking, etc.
    Don't fix it if it ain't broken | Maximum effort gets maximum results

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackbolt22 View Post
    I can work with you on ideas. I've been wanting to know this for a long time.

    So normally I have torque based decel off and DO use dashpot so naturally all of this is populated and looks like yours on the front page. This is my standard tune.

    Now my ghost cam tune is exactly the same except torque based is on, VSS is 0mph but I leave all of my dashpot parameters in tact. Originally I had enable airflow at .05 and dashpot vss at 3mph but I made those 0 to match yours to see if that's why it WASN'T working like you said.. No change.

    If you could post a log of yours from startup with the ghostcam tune you posted last so I can compare to mine that would be awesome! Don't touch the throttle either, just turn the key to start The log would need cam angles, mapped points, and all sources to be useful. I am almost disbelief that it's possible because even some videos on the internet of ghost cams tune done by very popular company show the driver blipping the throttle to activate.... If you've discovered a way I sure want to know what setting lol.
    It has to be something in addition to the min dashpot enable, I changed a lot of stuff along the way but I'm pretty sure it was changing min dashpot enable to 0 that caused it start up in dashpot idle ctrl because I was so happy to see it do that.

    I saw this behavior in a Lund tune and that let me know it was possible

    log is startup, no pedal. Dashpot idle ctrl, emission reduction to optimum stab, cams gradually move into position with temperature and runtime

    Compared with an earlier version that req'd the throttle tap:
    Idle>RPM>Idle Adders
    Spark>Advance>Base>Spark Cold Start Max Retard Drive
    Spark>Advance>Base>Spark Cold Start Max Retard Neutral
    Spark>Transient>Spark Decel

    Also, I use stock idle airflows for the cam tune, I couldn't get away with this with the dashpot tune so they're different, are you using stock idle airflows for the cam tune?
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by GapRider; 08-12-2019 at 02:29 PM.
    2019 C7 Stingray M7 - long tube headers, 6.30/6.22 226/238 cam, supporting stuff, DOD and VVT delete.
    Stock everything else

  16. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by mat_holland View Post
    Thanks for that!

    What about on an auto car? Same steps, or are there issues with an auto car?
    I just thought, use your stock idle airflows, I think they're higher for autos
    2019 C7 Stingray M7 - long tube headers, 6.30/6.22 226/238 cam, supporting stuff, DOD and VVT delete.
    Stock everything else

  17. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by GapRider View Post
    It has to be something in addition to the min dashpot enable, I changed a lot of stuff along the way but I'm pretty sure it was changing min dashpot enable to 0 that caused it start up in dashpot idle ctrl because I was so happy to see it do that.

    I saw this behavior in a Lund tune and that let me know it was possible

    log is startup, no pedal. Dashpot idle ctrl, emission reduction to optimum stab, cams gradually move into position with temperature and runtime

    Compared with an earlier version that req'd the throttle tap:
    Idle>RPM>Idle Adders
    Spark>Advance>Base>Spark Cold Start Max Retard Drive
    Spark>Advance>Base>Spark Cold Start Max Retard Neutral
    Spark>Transient>Spark Decel

    Also, I use stock idle airflows for the cam tune, I couldn't get away with this with the dashpot tune so they're different, are you using stock idle airflows for the cam tune?
    You aren't logging torque source and I'm not logging Idle speed control mode and idle speed source. That said when you start your car it is in Spark Source=Torque Control and mine is in Spark Source=Idle Feedback. If I blip the throttle it goes to Spark Source=Torque Control so you definitely have the answer somewhere!!

    I don't even have Spark>Transient>Spark Decel but I really don't feel like any of those you mentioned should make a difference....

    Something that's different is I have Hyst. VSS set at some very tiny number , not 0 though on MPH it's 0. I will zero that out for real. Also My Dashpot Clip vs. RPM is completely zero'd and the last 2 under that are different than yours... I'm going to try exact same settings in a test tune..
    Last edited by blackbolt22; 08-12-2019 at 05:27 PM.
    Knock Retard is the reduction or prevention of knock by lowering ignition timing:

    (+) Adding Knock Retard = Reducing Timing. PCM is seeing knock.
    (--) Lowering Knock Retard = Increasing Timing. PCM isn't seeing knock.
    __________________________________________________ ________

    2014 Mustang GT Premium. VMP Gen2R Supercharged with an FTI 3000rpm Converter. JLT, BMR, Steeda, Viking, etc.
    Don't fix it if it ain't broken | Maximum effort gets maximum results

  18. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackbolt22 View Post
    You aren't logging torque source and I'm not logging Idle speed control mode and idle speed source. That said when you start your car it is in Spark Source=Torque Control and mine is in Spark Source=Idle Feedback. If I blip the throttle it goes to Spark Source=Torque Control so you definitely have the answer somewhere!!

    I don't even have Spark>Transient>Spark Decel but I really don't feel like any of those you mentioned should make a difference....

    Something that's different is I have Hyst. VSS set at some very tiny number , not 0 though on MPH it's 0. I will zero that out for real. Also My Dashpot Clip vs. RPM is completely zero'd and the last 2 under that are different than yours... I'm going to try exact same settings in a test tune..
    tip out.JPG
    The comparison says Spark>Transient>Spark Decel but Tip Out is the table

    Well we can find it then, just got to keep trying.
    2019 C7 Stingray M7 - long tube headers, 6.30/6.22 226/238 cam, supporting stuff, DOD and VVT delete.
    Stock everything else

  19. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by GapRider View Post
    tip out.JPG
    The comparison says Spark>Transient>Spark Decel but Tip Out is the table

    Well we can find it then, just got to keep trying.
    Yeah lol. I found this then I came to check here to edit, remove, and saw your reply lol.

    So far what I've done is make every single dashpot param the same.. no change.. still need to blip throttle. Now i'm going to do 15 across every spark table like you have...
    Knock Retard is the reduction or prevention of knock by lowering ignition timing:

    (+) Adding Knock Retard = Reducing Timing. PCM is seeing knock.
    (--) Lowering Knock Retard = Increasing Timing. PCM isn't seeing knock.
    __________________________________________________ ________

    2014 Mustang GT Premium. VMP Gen2R Supercharged with an FTI 3000rpm Converter. JLT, BMR, Steeda, Viking, etc.
    Don't fix it if it ain't broken | Maximum effort gets maximum results

  20. #200
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    No luck on spark settings. What I did notice was in the log you posted for a moment after your car fires up it says Idle Speed Control Mode = RPM Ctrl before it quickly switches to Dashpot. Something about your car or settings is making it switch to dashpot. In a sense it's blipping itself...

    Going to try your decel settings to see LOL. This is probably a combination of your settings that makes it occur. You have the key bro LOL. Just reverse some settings till u find the one that stops it!
    Knock Retard is the reduction or prevention of knock by lowering ignition timing:

    (+) Adding Knock Retard = Reducing Timing. PCM is seeing knock.
    (--) Lowering Knock Retard = Increasing Timing. PCM isn't seeing knock.
    __________________________________________________ ________

    2014 Mustang GT Premium. VMP Gen2R Supercharged with an FTI 3000rpm Converter. JLT, BMR, Steeda, Viking, etc.
    Don't fix it if it ain't broken | Maximum effort gets maximum results