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Thread: Ghost cam issues - 13 mustang GT

  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Thatwhite5.0 View Post
    Your tables and cells are interpolating.
    Lower your idle RPM to 900.
    Set Minimum VSS to 0 MPH

    Here are some more changes.
    Rescale the tables and change the values of the cells. If you want to use IVO -50 EVC 30, you can try it. I think it's too much overlap for it to idle stable. I'd try IVO -40, EVC 15 or somewhere around those degrees. The angles and distances I changed will help out with cruising and help out your MPG, giving you the chop at idle and a smooth, more efficient driving.

    Attachment 97627
    thank you very much for this , i will try it tomorrow . can you tell me what will rescaling the vct emission reduction rpm do since we didn't change the distance , i am trying to understand it and not just copy
    thank you again

  2. #222
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    Emission reduction uses etc and rpm to target a cell. 750 rpm and 1200 are both commanding 0. 1400 is commanding 1.25.
    Your idle rpm should be around 900.
    Emission reduction rpm was 600, 1000, 1500, (guessing those rpm but you'll understand). During idle and cold starts, rpm will be greater than 1000 rpm, causing a unstable idle, up and down, not ghost camming because over 1000 rpm, your table is interpolating with the cells in the 1500 rpm column.

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by GapRider View Post
    I finally have a solid ghost cam tune, never tries to stall (even with AC on)and runs like normal when you touch the gas. I love it
    Its a 2013 GT, T56, 4.10 gears with longtubes. No cats because it dumps raw fuel down the exhaust when loping which will cause CAT overheating from trying to burn it all
    The more I learned by playing and logging, I found that less parameters needed changing.

    Here's what worked for me.

    • Set P/N idle RPM to 850
    • I use MP8 for the lope at idle, if you change cam angles for any mapped point then the speed density and torque tables for that mapped point will now be wrong so I didn't change any. Using MP8 is done in Op Stab tables explained below
    • Idle ctrl mode is in dashpot, not RPM ctrl - setting Idle>General>Min VSS to 0 does this for me. Tap the gas once right after you start the car and it should switch to dashpot idle ctrl (I do have tq decel enabled but I still have all dashpot parameters set to work from my dashpot tune-I don't know if this is necessary)
    • The cam lope won't happen until Emission Reduction times out and VCT schedule mode goes to Optimal Stability
    • Let Op Stab Mode handle all the lope idle stuff
      • Enable MP8 in Snap to Points
      • Fill Op Stab Mapped Points table with all 8s
      • Op Stab Max load table - set RPM x axis first three values to 750, 1000,1100RPMs and set max load at those RPMs to 0.3, leave the rest at 0.13. This will let it stay in Op Stab at idle only and able to transition to Fuel Econ above idle

    • Set Best Drivability Min load table to all 5s to negate it
    • I have Airflow>Desired Air Mass>Desired Air Mass Idle Switch Enabled (don't know if this is necessary)
    • Spark- this seemed to have affects on two things:
      1. making the idle chop like I wanted, this takes lower spark advance
      2. staying on MP8


      • lower the spark in the MBT and Borderline tables to 20 for 750,1000RPMs and loads 0.1 - 0.3 MAKE SURE TO CHANGE THOSE VALUES IN THE SPARK TABLES ON EITHER SIDE (SO MP7 AND MP9). THE ECU SEEMS TO ALWAYS LOOK AT SURROUNDING VALUES AND WHEN THEY ARE REALLY DIFFERENT, IT SEEMS RELUCTANT TO SETTLE ON ONE MAPPED POINT.
      • Here's where I found a mistake but the car does great. I chose MP8 for the lope idle but I changed the spark values in MP6,7,8 which puts MP7 in the middle. I will go back and target MP7 in the Op Stab table and see how it does.
      • Raise the Engine Diagnostics>Misfire Detection>Misfire Test RPM min to 1500RPM

    • Idle airflow values are all stock



    The car should chop at idle and when you touch the gas immediately smooth out and go to Fuel Econ and follow the fuel economy mapped points progression just like normal.
    While cruising it will be in Fuel Econ, when you let off the gas it will go to Op Stab.
    Hope I didn't miss anything and if someone wants to target MP7 instead of MP8 let me know how it worked out.
    Attachment 92008
    Do you know if this will work on the Gen3 with the 10r80? Its an F150 but I'm having a hard time getting my ghost cam settings to work and obey the distance tables.

  4. #224
    Advanced Tuner GapRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethan5.019 View Post
    Do you know if this will work on the Gen3 with the 10r80? Its an F150 but I'm having a hard time getting my ghost cam settings to work and obey the distance tables.
    Ethan,
    I sold the car a couple of years ago and the specifics have just faded, I'm sorry.
    2019 C7 Stingray M7 - long tube headers, 6.30/6.22 226/238 cam, supporting stuff, DOD and VVT delete.
    Stock everything else

  5. #225
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    It's all good I appreciate it.

  6. #226
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    Is there a tread that talks about this good kind of info but not looking for ghost cams?

    Have definitely learned a good amount here though.

    If I'm correct
    IVO at -20* then has the Intake valve opening 20* after top dead center
    IVO AT 20* has it opening 20* before top dead center? The Exhaust one I'm still a hair confused on.

    How do yall test what's working better without dyno, just drive and see?

    How do you even know where to make the changes anyways with the 26+ different map points with even just borderline, MBT, and even just the VCT.

    thanks

  7. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by LightingBlue17 View Post
    Is there a tread that talks about this good kind of info but not looking for ghost cams?

    Have definitely learned a good amount here though.

    If I'm correct
    IVO at -20* then has the Intake valve opening 20* after top dead center
    IVO AT 20* has it opening 20* before top dead center? The Exhaust one I'm still a hair confused on.

    How do yall test what's working better without dyno, just drive and see?

    How do you even know where to make the changes anyways with the 26+ different map points with even just borderline, MBT, and even just the VCT.

    thanks
    -20 is advancing 20* BTDC
    +20 is retarding 20* ATDC

    The mapped points and the 26 sets of tables are all dependant on cam angles. You can log intake and exhaust cam and know which mapped point to adjust. But I suggest you use the "mapped point weight" and make a histogram of your borderline and MBT tables in the scanner for spark and knock Retard.

  8. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by GapRider View Post
    UPDATED 8-11-19 - improved off idle transition and better control of cams moving into lope position at startup based on ECT

    MANUAL TRANSMISSION CAR
    NO CATS - OFFROAD X PIPE ONLY -cam tune dumps unburned fuel down the exhaust because of the random misfiring. It can cause dangerous heat if you try it with catalytic converters installed

    It's a solid tune, try it and give feedback, we can make it better.
    Car drives great, chops like the old muscle cars did and never tries to stall with AC on or off.

    Here's what needs to be done. After that I'll explain the changes if anyone is curious.
    Compare a stock tune to the attached tune.
    Make the changes you see in the comparison in the following areas:

    Engine>Idle>General
    Engine>Idle>RPM
    Engine>Idle>Airflow

    Engine>Airflow>Variable Camshaft>Mapped Points
    Engine>Airflow>Variable Camshaft>Distance Tables
    Engine>Airflow>Variable Camshaft>Max Phasing Limit EOT
    Engine>Airflow>Variable Camshaft>Combustion Stability
    Engine>Airflow>Variable Camshaft>Best Drivability
    Engine>Airflow>Variable Camshaft>Optimal Stability

    Engine>Spark>Advance>Base [8-11-19]
    Engine>Spark>Advance>Borderline
    Engine>Spark>Advance>MBT
    Engine>Spark>Advance>Idle Spark Advance
    Engine>Spark>Advance>Transient [8-11-19]

    Engine>Torque Management>Driver Demand [8-11-19]

    Engine Diagnostics>Misfire>Detection

    The general idea is to use a mapped point with good valve overlap, that's already in the stock tune, and make the car choose that mapped point at idle.
    You should get a solid lope idle but then when you take off, transition normally through mapped points in fuel economy mode like always.
    Mapped points and distance tables are set to reduce jerking the cams around when you let off the gas during gear changes.
    Best Drivability table is maxed out so it is ignored by ECU.

    The spark tables are adjusted to lower the spark advance at idle so you get a good chop.
    Surrounding spark tables are adjusted to make the ECU happier to choose the MP targeted.

    Idle control needs to be dashpot, this is why all the dashpot stuff, you still use Torque control Decel though, don't toggle that.
    Min vss needs to be 0. Also Min dashpot enable airflow at 0 causes dashpot control as soon as you start the car, you don't have to tap the gas.

    Combustion stability tables help to ease the cams into overlap position as the car warms up instead of going straight to overlap as soon as you start it.
    I saw this behavior in a Lund tune and I like it.
    Hi there,
    I have a question for witch I think there wasn't answer anywhere here in the thread.

    If you make this ghost cam tune in a car that has cats installed - the only issue you get is damage of the cats, or some other damages can be done to engine due to higher temperature?

    Thanks!

  9. #229
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    Im also having trouble how to figure how to ghost cam this mustang. I usually never stray from LS tuning, and im glad i usually dont haha, but can someone help me out? explain the parameters, its a 2020 5.0 with the 10r80

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by lambda1 View Post
    Hi there,
    I have a question for witch I think there wasn't answer anywhere here in the thread.

    If you make this ghost cam tune in a car that has cats installed - the only issue you get is damage of the cats, or some other damages can be done to engine due to higher temperature?

    Thanks!
    the cam tune just mimicks the valve overlap of old school big cams so no danger to the engine but you end up with lots of unburned fuel in the exhaust. Nobody ran cats back then so no issue but now with cats, which are designed to burn fuel in the exhaust, will be trying to burn all that extra fuel from the cam tune which Ford never intended.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dunbar3452 View Post
    Im also having trouble how to figure how to ghost cam this mustang. I usually never stray from LS tuning, and im glad i usually dont haha, but can someone help me out? explain the parameters, its a 2020 5.0 with the 10r80
    guys, I don't have the Mustang anymore and have forgotten so much, I can't even fully understand my own posts from then. I can tell you that I learned a lot reading posts from guys like White5.0, murfie.
    2019 C7 Stingray M7 - long tube headers, 6.30/6.22 226/238 cam, supporting stuff, DOD and VVT delete.
    Stock everything else

  11. #231
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    thanks! that's what I thought. This tune makes no sense as long as you have cats in my opinion the sound is not also like the old cars

  12. #232
    Advanced Tuner GapRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lambda1 View Post
    thanks! that's what I thought. This tune makes no sense as long as you have cats in my opinion the sound is not also like the old cars
    An example of what it sounds like https://youtu.be/sPaI-dknKZg