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Thread: More alcohol tables for P59 and other Gen III controllers

  1. #1
    Advanced Tuner Pulse_GTO's Avatar
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    More alcohol tables for P59 and other Gen III controllers

    I don't know if this table even exists in the P59 controller, specifically for the 2004 GTO, but it would be worth a shot to ask. In the pictures attached I've circled the table from a 2008 Silverado that I would like to see added. It's under Engine>Spark>Advance in the AFR Correction area. It's called Mult. vs Composition and is what determines how much spark is added based on the alcohol percentage. All this would be in order to convert vehicles with these controllers to Flex Fuel. I've also added a screen shot of a P59 controller in the same area for a comparison. In addition there has been some discussion about this table in this thread http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...cohol-settings.

    Thanks!
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Maybe post up a flex fuel truck and a regular "otherwise identical" truck file for HPTuners support to compare. There were LM7's produced with and without it. For example, here's my 2005 Silverado 1500 stock file, as well as a 2005 Avalanche Flex Fuel stock file.

    Other than speedo/transmission differences due to different gears/tires, fuel tank capacity differences, injector calibration (flex fuels have larger injectors) and a minor difference in RAF and idle RPM that I seem to see between all SUV's and trucks with the same engines, all of the other differences I see I can directly attribute to flex fuel. I assume there must be something telling the PCM to target a % of the alcohol adder table that we can't see though. Both files are attached. Same year/OS.

    Stock.hpt
    2005 Avalanche Flex Fuel.hpt
    2010 Camaro SS M6. Stock Bottom End, Heads/Cam/Intake/Headers/Exhaust.
    2005 Silverado RCSB. Forged 370 LQ9/Borg-Forced Inductions T6 S484/Jake's Stage 4 4L80E with D3 Brake/4WD.
    2023 Durango Hellcat

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    Advanced Tuner Pulse_GTO's Avatar
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    Good Idea Mike. Unfortunately there is no flex fuel option for the 04 GTO. I did find a file for an 04 Tahoe with the 5.3 Flex Fuel oftion and the OS ID is 12587603. The OS ID for the 04 GTO is 12587604. Just one number apart. The 04 Tahoe does not have the Mult. vs Composition either. I'm attaching both.
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pulse_GTO View Post
    Good Idea Mike. Unfortunately there is no flex fuel option for the 04 GTO. I did find a file for an 04 Tahoe with the 5.3 Flex Fuel oftion and the OS ID is 12587603. The OS ID for the 04 GTO is 12587604. Just one number apart. The 04 Tahoe does not have the Mult. vs Composition either. I'm attaching both.
    Yeah...that's why I uploaded those 2005 files...they're both the same OS, but one has flex fuel and one doesn't. I figure if HPTuners can compare and see what's there that we need access to, then they should be able to see that in the rest of the P59 OS's that can support flex fuel.
    2010 Camaro SS M6. Stock Bottom End, Heads/Cam/Intake/Headers/Exhaust.
    2005 Silverado RCSB. Forged 370 LQ9/Borg-Forced Inductions T6 S484/Jake's Stage 4 4L80E with D3 Brake/4WD.
    2023 Durango Hellcat

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    Advanced Tuner Pulse_GTO's Avatar
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    Is there any hope for this?

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    Did you try e-mailing support with the files, or a link to this thread?
    2010 Camaro SS M6. Stock Bottom End, Heads/Cam/Intake/Headers/Exhaust.
    2005 Silverado RCSB. Forged 370 LQ9/Borg-Forced Inductions T6 S484/Jake's Stage 4 4L80E with D3 Brake/4WD.
    2023 Durango Hellcat

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    I found an open loop blend factor in EFILive for the same 2005 Silverado OS I posted before...their note says that it's for fuel, but I guess it could be for spark too.

    I'm looking for a 2005 Avalanche Flex Fuel file for EFILive to compare. I found a 2006 Avalanche file where the blend factor table is there. But again, I don't know if it applies to fuel only or fuel and spark...or if it has a sister table for spark.
    Last edited by MikeOD; 03-13-2015 at 10:46 AM.
    2010 Camaro SS M6. Stock Bottom End, Heads/Cam/Intake/Headers/Exhaust.
    2005 Silverado RCSB. Forged 370 LQ9/Borg-Forced Inductions T6 S484/Jake's Stage 4 4L80E with D3 Brake/4WD.
    2023 Durango Hellcat

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    Advanced Tuner Pulse_GTO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeOD View Post
    I found an open loop blend factor in EFILive for the same 2005 Silverado OS I posted before...their note says that it's for fuel, but I guess it could be for spark too.

    I'm looking for a 2005 Avalanche Flex Fuel file for EFILive to compare. I found a 2006 Avalanche file where the blend factor table is there. But again, I don't know if it applies to fuel only or fuel and spark...or if it has a sister table for spark.
    Would you be able to post a screenshot or send me one?

  9. #9
    Senior Tuner LSxpwrdZ's Avatar
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    Email support for the table for your OS. The Open Loop F/A blend factor table will also apply to the Flex Fuel Spark Adder table.

    I personally didn't need the table because I used the other software to modify a base file that I use in each swap that I do.
    James Short - [email protected]
    Located in Central Kentucky
    ShorTuning
    2020 Camaro 2SS | BTR 230 | GPI CNC Heads | MSD Intake | Rotofab | 2" LT's | Flex Fuel | 638rwhp / 540rwtq
    2002 Camaro | LSX 427 | CID LS7's | Twin GT5088's | Haltech Nexus R5 | RPM TH400

  10. #10
    Advanced Tuner Pulse_GTO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSxpwrdZ View Post
    Email support for the table for your OS. The Open Loop F/A blend factor table will also apply to the Flex Fuel Spark Adder table.

    I personally didn't need the table because I used the other software to modify a base file that I use in each swap that I do.
    Where would I find the Open Loop F/A blend factor table? I don't see it under Engine>Fuel>Open & Closed Loop.

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    Untitled.jpg

    It's not in HPTuners...it's most likely set to 0's like this.

    I haven't had a chance yet, but when I do I intend to modify it in EFILive, flash it into my truck and read it back out with HPTuners and send to support so they can look at the differences and add the table. This is a 2005 LM7 (my truck).
    Last edited by MikeOD; 04-10-2015 at 11:26 AM.
    2010 Camaro SS M6. Stock Bottom End, Heads/Cam/Intake/Headers/Exhaust.
    2005 Silverado RCSB. Forged 370 LQ9/Borg-Forced Inductions T6 S484/Jake's Stage 4 4L80E with D3 Brake/4WD.
    2023 Durango Hellcat

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    Attachment 49696

    This is the same table in a 2006 Flex Fuel Avalanche.
    Last edited by MikeOD; 04-10-2015 at 01:15 PM.
    2010 Camaro SS M6. Stock Bottom End, Heads/Cam/Intake/Headers/Exhaust.
    2005 Silverado RCSB. Forged 370 LQ9/Borg-Forced Inductions T6 S484/Jake's Stage 4 4L80E with D3 Brake/4WD.
    2023 Durango Hellcat

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    Not sure why on my PC the picture shows up in one post and text in another...click the attachment text and the picture is there.
    2010 Camaro SS M6. Stock Bottom End, Heads/Cam/Intake/Headers/Exhaust.
    2005 Silverado RCSB. Forged 370 LQ9/Borg-Forced Inductions T6 S484/Jake's Stage 4 4L80E with D3 Brake/4WD.
    2023 Durango Hellcat

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    I can't see the picture in post 12. Even when I click the link it says "invalid attachment." If you compare links, the one in post 12 is truncated compared to the link for post 11.

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    Advanced Tuner caesar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeOD View Post
    Untitled.jpg

    It's not in HPTuners...it's most likely set to 0's like this.

    I haven't had a chance yet, but when I do I intend to modify it in EFILive, flash it into my truck and read it back out with HPTuners and send to support so they can look at the differences and add the table. This is a 2005 LM7 (my truck).
    This is not necessary. Just e-mail support the OSID and a screenshot of what you need.

  16. #16
    Advanced Tuner Pulse_GTO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caesar View Post
    This is not necessary. Just e-mail support the OSID and a screenshot of what you need.
    Would this be something that would be added to all P59 calibrations, or would I have to make the same request for mine?
    I

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    ^^^^+1

  18. #18
    Senior Tuner LSxpwrdZ's Avatar
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    It's possible without all these tables being added you just have to stitch together tune files to make it work... I think there are other switches or tables to enable it fully that we or the other software don't have access to. Reason being you can't simply just flip the switch in a GTO OS and enable Flex Fuel like the Gen4 stuff does. At least I've not been able to get an OE GTO file to work. I've been using a hybrid 2005 CTS-V/Truck file to put Flex Fuel in Fbodies etc. As long as the hardware for the IAC is there copying everything over from a GTO file to the hybrid file works. ETC will disable after copying everything over.

    I've also sent in a request a week or so ago to add the Flex Fuel Spark PID in the scanner. I would also like for Fuel Temperature be added but the Flex Spark will suffice for now at least.
    James Short - [email protected]
    Located in Central Kentucky
    ShorTuning
    2020 Camaro 2SS | BTR 230 | GPI CNC Heads | MSD Intake | Rotofab | 2" LT's | Flex Fuel | 638rwhp / 540rwtq
    2002 Camaro | LSX 427 | CID LS7's | Twin GT5088's | Haltech Nexus R5 | RPM TH400

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    Quote Originally Posted by LSxpwrdZ View Post
    It's possible without all these tables being added you just have to stitch together tune files to make it work... I think there are other switches or tables to enable it fully that we or the other software don't have access to. Reason being you can't simply just flip the switch in a GTO OS and enable Flex Fuel like the Gen4 stuff does. At least I've not been able to get an OE GTO file to work. I've been using a hybrid 2005 CTS-V/Truck file to put Flex Fuel in Fbodies etc. As long as the hardware for the IAC is there copying everything over from a GTO file to the hybrid file works. ETC will disable after copying everything over.

    I've also sent in a request a week or so ago to add the Flex Fuel Spark PID in the scanner. I would also like for Fuel Temperature be added but the Flex Spark will suffice for now at least.
    What would be the most economical (least number of licenses I need to purchase) to have this work? Also, once a hybrid file is generated, would I have to get someone with the other software to change the VIN back to mine?

  20. #20
    Senior Tuner LSxpwrdZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pulse_GTO View Post
    What would be the most economical (least number of licenses I need to purchase) to have this work? Also, once a hybrid file is generated, would I have to get someone with the other software to change the VIN back to mine?
    I could send you a file with it already setup and you could simply license the one and not have to license multiple files. The problem is with the 2005 OS I'm using you are unable to write a 2004 GTO VIN to it without having a VIN/OS mismatch. I have a flex fuel test file based off the 2004 C5 and 2004 Flex Fuel trucks that I'm working with right now that is able to use a GTO VIN. I have the file ready but haven't had anyone else in the shop to test it on to see if it functions. I would test on my personal vehicle but I've not had the chance to add a Flex sensor to it yet (too many customers cars to have time for my own).
    James Short - [email protected]
    Located in Central Kentucky
    ShorTuning
    2020 Camaro 2SS | BTR 230 | GPI CNC Heads | MSD Intake | Rotofab | 2" LT's | Flex Fuel | 638rwhp / 540rwtq
    2002 Camaro | LSX 427 | CID LS7's | Twin GT5088's | Haltech Nexus R5 | RPM TH400