2010 Challenger Throttle control

[hutter performance]

I have been tuning a 2010 Challenger with Saleen supercharger and custom camshaft. I have the car running pretty well finally, but have been unable to get rid of a throttle tip in issue. 1st and 2nd gear are pretty good, but the issue is very noticeable in 3rd or higher gears. Example: Car in 3rd @ 1700rpm - start a slow roll on of the pedal - throttle responds initially then hits a "flat line" until the WOT parameter is met. I've tried changing many of the tables with no results so far. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
NGC4 throttle issue.jpg
Frisbie Arrington rev6 Hutter mod -5B ETC test H.hpt

[ElecTech]

You can try to work with the "Pedal WOT" and "Throttle WOT" values under the "Airflow>Electronic Throttle" tab to clean up the trigger points. Also the pedal power tables can help adjust the feel, as well.

[ElecTech]

Things get worse in the higher gears because the trans tends to shift early and you give it more pedal to work through the "bog" and you get the strange onset of boost and pedal. I've found it's much less of an issue in manual mode.

[hutter performance]

Things get worse in the higher gears because the trans tends to shift early and you give it more pedal to work through the "bog" and you get the strange onset of boost and pedal. I've found it's much less of an issue in manual mode.

Thanks for the input. This is a manual car, but I would think many of the same strategies would carry over. I did try many different changes to the power%request table and it did change the feel around but never got rid of the issue. I ended up raising the WOT trigger because the come on point was a little harsh. Isn't there a way to have the throttle pretty linear up to the WOT trigger point?

[ElecTech]

Thanks for the input. This is a manual car, but I would think many of the same strategies would carry over. I did try many different changes to the power%request table and it did change the feel around but never got rid of the issue. I ended up raising the WOT trigger because the come on point was a little harsh. Isn't there a way to have the throttle pretty linear up to the WOT trigger point?

The power%request is the only way I know of to control that. I also like to pay close attention to the PE FA tables and the timing tables in the transition areas. The tend to set the low load FA PE table areas rich from the factory. I like to trigger WOT fueling early, but run the table in a leaner AFR in off boost areas so that the transition seems to be a little cleaner because you aren't dumping a bunch of fuel in at half throttle. I'll then taper down to the richer values.

Chris has pretty good explanation of the throttle issues with the Hemi ECU in another thread. The best you can do is find a safe compromise.

[ElecTech]

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...=throttle+flow

Found it.

[hutter performance]

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...=throttle+flow

Found it.

Good information. Thank you for the help!

[[email protected]]

I have been tuning a 2010 Challenger with Saleen supercharger and custom camshaft. I have the car running pretty well finally, but have been unable to get rid of a throttle tip in issue. 1st and 2nd gear are pretty good, but the issue is very noticeable in 3rd or higher gears. Example: Car in 3rd @ 1700rpm - start a slow roll on of the pedal - throttle responds initially then hits a "flat line" until the WOT parameter is met. I've tried changing many of the tables with no results so far. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
NGC4 throttle issue.jpg
Frisbie Arrington rev6 Hutter mod -5B ETC test H.hpt

If your lambda reading is correct you are way too lean for the transition into boost (pratio 1.00 and greater). If you have scaled your VE tables for boost (if not you should) go to that area and surrounding, add some fuel and also add some timing in that area of the part throttle spark table (unless you have your tip-in spark still active - then cut that down some).

I get a checksum error when trying to open your file otherwise I'd review it.

[hutter performance]

If your lambda reading is correct you are way too lean for the transition into boost (pratio 1.00 and greater). If you have scaled your VE tables for boost (if not you should) go to that area and surrounding, add some fuel and also add some timing in that area of the part throttle spark table (unless you have your tip-in spark still active - then cut that down some).

I get a checksum error when trying to open your file otherwise I'd review it.

My mistake on the lambda channel. I configured it initially expecting that the eq ratio reads like many of the gm calibrations. Once I saw the eq was reading in lambda, I just never deleted the lambda channel I made. VE tables are scaled for boost. All the boost fueling looked pretty good on the dyno. The only tq mgmt I haven't tried shutting off is the "bobble."

[[email protected]]

My mistake on the lambda channel. I configured it initially expecting that the eq ratio reads like many of the gm calibrations. Once I saw the eq was reading in lambda, I just never deleted the lambda channel I made. VE tables are scaled for boost. All the boost fueling looked pretty good on the dyno. The only tq mgmt I haven't tried shutting off is the "bobble."

If that is the case and your issue is that the TPS is not following the Pedal (I think that's what you are highlighting in the graph) then I would increase the Pedal % Power table in that area. For M6 cars that can get a little dicey - just remember that the Pedal % power table is "Engine speed over vehicle speed" So you will need to make some calculations to hit that spot. Just be careful not to be too aggressive with increasing values in the Pedal % table or the throttle willl hang open under WOT and boost conditions.

[hutter performance]

If that is the case and your issue is that the TPS is not following the Pedal (I think that's what you are highlighting in the graph) then I would increase the Pedal % Power table in that area. For M6 cars that can get a little dicey - just remember that the Pedal % power table is "Engine speed over vehicle speed" So you will need to make some calculations to hit that spot. Just be careful not to be too aggressive with increasing values in the Pedal % table or the throttle willl hang open under WOT and boost conditions.

Roger that! I have been moving the values around in that table and it did make a noticeable difference to throttle response. However, the issue always remains and it seems to be related to manifold pressure. Once the Manifold pressure reaches around the 100kpa area, the throttle always stops increasing with pedal input until I reach the WOT threshold. I'm thinking, based on reading the post ElecTech provided, that there is only so much throttle tuning you can do independent of the WOT mode.....

[proautoman]

Roger that! I have been moving the values around in that table and it did make a noticeable difference to throttle response. However, the issue always remains and it seems to be related to manifold pressure. Once the Manifold pressure reaches around the 100kpa area, the throttle always stops increasing with pedal input until I reach the WOT threshold. I'm thinking, based on reading the post ElecTech provided, that there is only so much throttle tuning you can do independent of the WOT mode.....

smoke the manifold supercharger I bet you leak at the internal bypass shaft 2 inches from MAP poor design

[MikeOD]

I was unaware that the 2010 Challenger was supported now. Are you able to read/flash without issue?

[Mark@HPTuners]

I was unaware that the 2010 Challenger was supported now. Are you able to read/flash without issue?

With the current beta, you should be able to read most Dodge/Chrysler/Jeeps up to 2014 and flash most from 2004 to 2012 including the Challenger.

[MikeOD]

Sweet!!!!!!!!!!

[Ls3sierra406]

Mark are you going to do a write up on tuning or pointers on all this new Dodge/Chrysler/Jeeps?