Nizpro Drilled injector data

[turbotrana]

I've gone back to my Drilled nizpro injectors in my FG. I know some of you hate them ( and I used to also) but they are not too bad. I would really like to see the other side of the difuser plate tho.
Nevertheless I do know how to dial in injectors with the absents of any data. But I am wondering did Nizpro ever give out their recommended starting point for these injectors. Dont really want to ring them up. Or has anyone the data from a Nizpro tune or data they wish to share.

[JETURBO]

Yeh i got some, what scales have you come up with so far ?

[turbotrana]

These are the figures the pro tuner got (note I bought an already tuned car with drilled injectors).
He used all the same data for offset,breakpoint, PW min as a stock FG injector. Hi slope 80.50 and Low slope 70.78

Note, I have not spent time dialing this injector except for adding .2 to the offsets to stop an idle dropping behaviour it had. But now coming hotter weather its doing some stuff it was not doing when cold weather so I need to do one of my PRO tunes.

[JETURBO]

Yeh thats junk tony

From being a pro tuner ........ Caugh lol ........ What do u think u need to do to these values
Iam surprised it actually plays the game as well as it does

[hiddeous]

I ran the old style B series nizpro drilled injectors in my old ute. IIRC Nizpro didn't publish data for them (as I don't believe two set where ever exactly the same) so I cannot tell you hi and lo slopes but I can tell you they maxed out well below the 350rwkw mark and where replaced with a set of 60lb dekas.

I would be looking at slopes around the 60lb mark on the high side and work backwards from there to get your low slopes. (B series stock injectors where 36lb stock)

I think Toads had a play with them a while back so he may have some data.

For what it's worth, Drilled injectors are the devil, but the nizzer units are the best of a bad idea and idled and started better than the Deka's I replaced them with.

[JETURBO]

Nizpro 72's - BA/BF

Breakpoint 0.0000186
Hi Slope 0.0197250
Low Slope 0.0211058
Min PW 0.0005000


16.00 0.0009573
15.00 0.0010299
14.50 0.0010736
14.00 0.0011227
13.50 0.0011739
13.00 0.0012294
12.00 0.0013682
11.00 0.0015453
10.00 0.0017844
9.00 0.0021142
8.00 0.0025250
6.00 0.0035901


just because iam a caring kind of guy hahaha.

[turbotrana]

Thanks Jet. It saves a bit of time. I was headed in that direction but would have taken a while.

Yes Jet, this is a well known Perth tuner. Not only did he poorly scale the injectors which caused a bit of an idle dip, he installed an operating system from another car into this FG that it did not like. The combination of the two problems caused the car to stall and why it was sold. According to the previous owner of the car, he went back to the tuner to fix it but he couldn't. I could see that he tried to play with the idle dashpot but he was way off. I also rang him to see if he could offer help but he said it was preexisting, which is wasn't cause the Ford Service history never had an idle issue come up.

Nevertheless its fixed now. The only good thing that came out of it was that it forced me to learn HP Tuner software.

[turbotrana]

For what it's worth, Drilled injectors are the devil, but the nizzer units are the best of a bad idea and idled and started better than the Deka's I replaced them with.

I didn't think highly of them either. But to problem solve this stalling issue I put them back in as I did consider the injector to maybe play a part in this stalling issue in the very beginning but now know it wasn't the injector. But as you said, they start and idle fine.

[JETURBO]

All good, i was prevlidged with the data long ago so i feel this is an acceptable circle for it to be shared withand the fact my usuall "go look for your self" attitude wont help here as they are a drilled injector with no published data so that would just be cruel hahaha

There is only 2 well known tuners in WA ( workshops anyway ) and something like that from either of them ant flash, especially if the poor bloke ended up selling because of it

That being said we helped at least three customers that were on the very verge of selling because of paid work from "top" tuners here in SA, its amazing how many issues a good set of scalers can rectify in a tune ....

As i said i did not populate the data so keep this thread up dated if anythings majorly off for the good of everyone else ( nothing worse than bad data )

[turbotrana]

I tried those scallers Jet. A bit rich but took me in the direction it needed to go.
I am at 1.1694ms @ 13v, lo slope 86lb/hr, hi slope 76 and it trimming -10% on stft with ltft off. Drives nice and I prefer a negative stft and I keep Ltft off. This probably wont make sense to many. Will leave it at that for now until I have more time with it.

[hiddeous]

Why tune for a negative -ve though? It should be cycling +ve to -ve around 3 to 5pc in closed loop to keep the cat hot anyway. Fudging the slope to get a -ve stft in closed loop is only making the PCM's job harder?

[turbotrana]

I always leave the LTFT off. Thats the way I like to tune, therefore only the STFT works. I don't know whether its just me but I find that the narrow band fuel sensor does not like and has difficulty with lean mixtures as opposed to richer mixers. So ideally whilst aiming for a zero trim, even if its in a negative trim of 10%, I think the narrow band tends work better than say if it was in a +10% where I see the ECU seems to get stuck with the closed loop not working. Is this just my observation??

Also with the trims you got to make sure that injector offset and lo slope are set so that you dont get a situation in the extreme that you are negative trim on slight cruise load and positive trim on idle. Ideally trying to get the same trim across the board by juggling the two.

At the end of the day I am looking at what gives best drivability by giving the engine what it wants. Remember alot of what we are doing is fudging in the absence of having a instruction manual and live tuning where I would probably do things differently.

I do not claim this is the right way, also not sure if I explain it very well but best when we get together some time to try and explain it a bit better.

[IH8TOADS]

Those values Jet posted are for a BA 'blue' injector used in a BA. Tony you have the nizpro black injectors I'm guessing. These are two different injector bodies with different physical characteristics. Also the BA and FG have a different airflow model so the scaling (fudging) will be different. I wouldn't worry what other people are doing and just work it out for yourself.

[turbotrana]

No worries Toads. Got an innovate boost controller with built in wideband coming from the US. A newish product, will see how well it works.

[hiddeous]

I always leave the LTFT off. Thats the way I like to tune, therefore only the STFT works. I don't know whether its just me but I find that the narrow band fuel sensor does not like and has difficulty with lean mixtures as opposed to richer mixers. So ideally whilst aiming for a zero trim, even if its in a negative trim of 10%, I think the narrow band tends work better than say if it was in a +10% where I see the ECU seems to get stuck with the closed loop not working. Is this just my observation??

Also with the trims you got to make sure that injector offset and lo slope are set so that you dont get a situation in the extreme that you are negative trim on slight cruise load and positive trim on idle. Ideally trying to get the same trim across the board by juggling the two.

I'm not suggesting what you are saying is wrong, but I've not seen what you are describing. From what you describe I wonder what else is at play?

[DarrylC]

I always leave the LTFT off. Thats the way I like to tune, therefore only the STFT works. I don't know whether its just me but I find that the narrow band fuel sensor does not like and has difficulty with lean mixtures as opposed to richer mixers. So ideally whilst aiming for a zero trim, even if its in a negative trim of 10%, I think the narrow band tends work better than say if it was in a +10% where I see the ECU seems to get stuck with the closed loop not working. Is this just my observation??

Also with the trims you got to make sure that injector offset and lo slope are set so that you dont get a situation in the extreme that you are negative trim on slight cruise load and positive trim on idle. Ideally trying to get the same trim across the board by juggling the two.

At the end of the day I am looking at what gives best drivability by giving the engine what it wants. Remember alot of what we are doing is fudging in the absence of having a instruction manual and live tuning where I would probably do things differently.

I do not claim this is the right way, also not sure if I explain it very well but best when we get together some time to try and explain it a bit better.

turbotrana I am very interested in what you are doing, what you are reporting is the opposite of what I have found (I know that does make either correct). I found that when the fuel trims are out by this amount it led to terrible economy and poor drivability but I never turned off the LTFT as I used them to fix injector scaling and the speed density tables. Once I had the close injector data then my economy when up by over 20% (on LPG LI injection).

Also once I got the Bosch 550cc injectors scaled well the trip economy dropped to below 10l/100 down from 12.1 L/100km (on the freeway in a Territory with fuel trims under +/- 2%).

[JETURBO]

its amazing how many issues a good set of scalers can rectify in a tune ....

[turbotrana]

Darryl, when you scale your injectors do you ever turn off the LTFT?

[DarrylC]

Darryl, when you scale your injectors do you ever turn off the LTFT?

I have not tried that but am willing to give it a go. BTW you comment about adding .2 to the Offset is gold, I found a similar thing when trying to dial in the Bosch 550/ LPG injector combo.

I got put off by the rapid change in STFT values so just drove it for about a 100km until it all started to settle down then logged all the LTFT I could and worked from there. My aim was to get the LTFTs as low as possible for cruise economy (I was told this by a good tuner and it works for LPG).

I am very keen to learn how this is done as I have spent a fair bit of time doing this and thought there must be an easier way.

Jet, your original quote is so correct it is not funny. Once I got the injectors close the whole car changed, smooth idle, better economy and throttle response went for doughy to great. I am still working on two issues with acceleration from light cruise slightly doughy and a high positive fuel trim under some decel conditions.

[turbotrana]

Darryl, you cant really tune without turning off LTFT IMO. I will try to give you a run down as to how I do it in the next few days.