What do you turn back on?

[Travis]

Hello, so I am new, sorry. So I have my VE table and idle and MAF all tuned. But in the hours of reading and experimenting I have turned off lots of things and am wondering what all should be turned back on or back down to normal levels, and what can be left turned off. Thanks for the feed back!


2006 GMC 1500HD 4x4
6.0l 4l80e
comp cam XR275HR-12
FAST 32lbs/hr LS2 injectors

dads tune.hpt

The one thing I am still trying to get figured is the PE, Not 100% on adjusting it, also when it comes in my wideband reads 10.5-11.8:1. I know its too rich, but what is the ideal number to shoot for?

[CatnipG5Bandit]

What have you turned off? Usually people disable DFCO which is still enabled in your tune. I noticed your closed loop is still disabled and you will get differing opinions on whether to turn it on or keep it off. Also a rule of thumb, your AFR should be in the range of 12.5-13.2ish for a motor that isn't boosted. My car likes 12.9-13.0. Yours will like different. But 10.5-11.8 is turbo or supercharger AFR.

[Travis]

The things I remember turning off are, fuel trims, cot, MAF (did something with the Hz) and changed a bunch of the torque management stuff

[CatnipG5Bandit]

Set the MAF fail Hz in "Engine Diagnostics" back to stock, 11,000Hz. That will re-enable the MAF.
People typically leave most of the torque management off in the 4L80e except a bit of torque reduction during shifts.

Some things have people on both sides of the argument.
I have COT off permanently but that's up to you. Some people turn it back on, some people don't.
I leave long term fuel trims off and set the closed loop to come on normally. But that's up to you. A lot of people use a combination of yes and no on these things.

[Travis]

So whatever I just did was a HUGE fail. Here is the tune to show you.

dads tune_rich_low_rpm.hpt
I thought I saved some scan data but I guess I didn't. Anyway at idle and low speed up to about 30 mph it is super rich, 10:1. Then all of a sudden it surges forward and it is 14.2:1 like it should. Nothing changes that I can find in the data. Even the injector pulse width stays the same. Stupid me saved over my old tune, so thank god I just posted it here the other day! Thanks for the help!

[CatnipG5Bandit]

Well for one your idle airflow is super high compared to stock. It's at 2lbs at operating temp when it should be half that.

[mowton]

Travis,

You entered into a previous thread and we helped you straighten out you Lambda err PIDs and calc's. I don't have a timeline on your tuning process but when I look at the tune files you posted (Dads tune), I don't see the DTC P0101, 102 and 103 set to fail first error. Without this you can not enter Speed Density and you cant tune the VE. Can you recap your process from the start and how you progressed through the tune.

Ed M

[Travis]

To start I read because of the larger cam I needed to set idle up. So I turned idle to 950 and logged several warm ups. Then I read to do the MAF learn. I did a pass at that to learn it. But then I read I was supposed to do fuel first. So I started trying to redo the VE table. After several attempts I reached out for help, and that is where you, Mowton, helped guide me for the primary table. I have made a bunch of trips and had the fuel AFR error within 1 % in the cells below 4000rpm. When I drive the wideband reads 13.9-14.3 while cruising. I obviously need to purchase a tuning guide book to get the steps in order. I started with "Getting started, tuning info", "Idle Tuning Startup Guide", then I used "Dialing in the MAF Simple version by EC_Tune". Those were the steps I had used. I wish there was a thread that stated the simple procedure order, rather then spending hours reading all over the place. Thank you guys for spending the time to help, It is GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!




Dialing in the MAF Simple version by EC_Tune,

[Travis]

I had turned the idle speed back down to 850 after I had driven it a bit and realized I didn't need it set so high. The truck was feeling good and I thought I could activate fuel trims and PE and be done, but wrong

[mowton]

Unfortunately, I don't have sufficient history of your tuning sessions but if Dads tune is what was used to tune the VE then I am sorry to say it needs to be done again. You must fail the P0101, 102 and 103 DTC's to kick into Speed Density to tune the VE. That should of been identified in one of the tutorials you used as well as failing the MAF (0 hz).

Also as far as the MAF goes, it too has a serious issue. Graph should be smooth....you have a huge dip at 9625 hz?

Need to regroup and start again I would think...:-( Here is a quick primer which may help in the process. It is not 100% detailed but gets you into the right mode.

VE and MAF Tuning 101 rev A.doc

Thanks,

Ed M

[Travis]

I believe that spike in the MAF was because that was where my rev limiter kicked in and the rest of the curve was oe data. I have since figured out how to increase my rev limiter. So I will redo it all. Thank you!

[Travis]

So the last two days I have driven and driven.... The truck runs fine until I turn the MAF back on, even after I followed the steps to first tune the VE and then tune the MAF table. AFR is ok until MAF is on then it runs 10.0:1. Here is my data and tune, it feels good and works well like this.

dads tune 4b.hptdads nov12b.hplve attemp 1 rev a 3.cfg

[CatnipG5Bandit]

Why are you commanding leaner than stoich PE values? It's calculated EQ, not lambda in these vehicles.

[mowton]

^^^^ Agree, fill table in with 1.15. Do not drive the truck the way it is. Going into wot created all kinds of knock because you weren't commanding proper enrichment.

I also updated your .cfg as it wasn't showing all the info, at least on my computer.

Your timing is going to be off due to the knock (stores the kknock events and adjusts the timing from the low octane table then very slowly returns you back to your High octane values. With EFI Live you can increase the Octane scalar value to increase the recovery, but I don't think HPTuners gives us that table, Ill keep looking. The end results of this is the commanded advance you see wont equeal what you have in the High Octane table. Don't adjust the table to get back the lost timing. As it corrects itself, your timing will increase above what you want and could cause other problems.

That being said, I want to better understand what you have posted here. Is this the final product where you put tune back into Closed loop? If so, set P0101 et al to fail on second fail. Did you use the tutorial I posted? Did it help?

If not, the tune is in closed loop (not open loop), LTFT trims and STFT open loop are enabled, P0101, 0102 and 0103 are failed on first error and MAF is failed at 0 (Speed density to tune VE) etc. Did you reset the fuel trims between each log/tune?

After you fix the PE EQ values, post another log

Ed M

ve attemp 1 rev a 4.cfg

[Travis]

I will log again tonight after work. But the reason I have less PE is when I was going WOT my wideband maxes out to 10:1 and the truck is low on power, sometimes even will miss. I have larger injectors then stock, so I presumed I needed to remove fuel to lean it out to around 13:1. This is a returnless fuel system too. The above data was my final drive at how it felt like it was working the best. Ed I did follow the steps, and even went over it every second flash to make sure. I haven't adjusted anything with the timing other than the part you had me do before, which I forget at the moment what that was (I would have to look back)

[mowton]

Dude, I'm sorry but the injector data is all wrong as well then......changing PE to adjust fueling like you are doing is just not correct. I am not sure how to get this right other than take a deep breath, sit a spell and start over.

Post the part number of the injectors but if they are 32 lb/LS2 then you can use the injector data from a 2005 corvette I would think as a good start.

I need to run out and will get back later, sorry

Ed M

[Travis]

OK, lets try this again. First my VE stuff with new injector data
nov13a.hplve attemp 1 rev a 3 nov13.cfgdads tune 4b.hpt

Then my MAF tune
dads tune 4c.hptnov13b.hpl

Got it working pretty good, started to look at PE. It goes rich about 12.5:1. Did a pull and I finally saw what you have been concerned about with my timing. Once the RPM is over 6000 the advance drops out with knock retard and injector pw is 80%, but my AFR is still 12.5:1. My first thought is I am taxing out my pump flow.

[Travis]

sorry could only post 5 attachments. So here is my drive, I see it happen around frame 1350
dads tune 4f.hptnov13c_frame1351.hpl

Is there anything obvious I am missing? Thanks again!

[mowton]

OK, lets try this again. First my VE stuff with new injector data
nov13a.hplve attemp 1 rev a 3 nov13.cfgdads tune 4b.hpt

Then my MAF tune
dads tune 4c.hptnov13b.hpl

Got it working pretty good, started to look at PE. It goes rich about 12.5:1. Did a pull and I finally saw what you have been concerned about with my timing. Once the RPM is over 6000 the advance drops out with knock retard and injector pw is 80%, but my AFR is still 12.5:1. My first thought is I am taxing out my pump flow.

VE tune (4b Tune/log look correct as far as process goes. AFR error's are with in +/-5% for the area's you collected. Data needs to be collected in a very steady state condition to allow it to stabilize before moving to the next cell. Use the throttle, gear change and hills if you can find them to help in the data collection process.

One observation during the VE log is the truck seems to hit 80 kPa pretty quick (<2000 rpm and moderate load). to this it enters PE at cruising levels where it really isn't needed. Please change the PE enable MAP to 85 kPa and the Hot/Cold throttle enable from 30 to 45.

The MAF is not as good, why did you take that tune (4c) out of Open Loop? Read the tutorial I provided above. By doing this you brought the LT/ST trims back into play but you were monitoring the WB AFR....doesn't work. The only changes to the VE tune should have been to restore the stock values of the P0101-103 DTC's and the MAF Fail to take it out of Speed Density and set the High RPM Disable from 4000 to 400 to set MAF only airflow model. Again, read the tutorial up top and start over on the MAF, then we talk about the knock situation at frame 1350 log. Also did you change the PE MAP Enable to 70? looking to put it at 85 now per above.

Ed M

1:45 PM Update -- strangely the logs for MAF all say Open loop and the trims are still sitting at 0? Are the tunes not associated with the logs? Sorry for the confusion.......MAF does appear lean at some points (assume its maf) and on and around the knock event, could use a bit more fuel.

[Travis]

I did see the PE coming on last night so I changed the TP command to 45%. As for fuel trims, I have noticed that for awhile since I have been trying to tune this. That was one of the reasons I started this whole thread as to what to turn on, because I wasn't getting fuel trims anymore. The one thing I have done is removed B1S1 o2 and installed my wideband there. Maybe that is why? Tomorrow I will put the narrowband back in and see. (Truck does still have cats). And yes tunes are related to logs. I logged and adjusted several times then saved the last and its related tune at the same time.