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Thread: The TRUE and Proper way to enter Injector Data

  1. #61
    Tuner in Training Hammersrt's Avatar
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    I have a 6.4 stroked to 7.0. I installed FIC 1000cc injectors and installed the supplied data for the injectors and I have 2 issues. One runs very rich at idle and surges, on the offset table when I put in their data it pulses and sounds like a blown supercharged engine surging big time at idle. The min. pulse rate that came with them is .350 still way to rich so I have brought it down to .150 has helped some but not enough. Any thoughts on this???

  2. #62
    Have you adjusted VE after?

  3. #63
    Tuner in Training Hammersrt's Avatar
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    Yes I have.....in fact the VE table is so low its crazy. I have the idle section of the VE table down to 20 to 24 and still running 10.4 to 10.7 at idle. Once the closed loop comes in the idle will creep up to 12.4 but surges off and on. I only have gotten to this point by raising the voltage from 5.6 to 9.8 volts at idle............I'm new and did have this running pretty well with no issues then my stock injector stuck open so I said time to upgrade getting ready for boost anyway. So i bought FIC 1000cc injectors and updated the injector data they provided and its way off.

  4. #64
    Advanced Tuner coanan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammersrt View Post
    Yes I have.....in fact the VE table is so low its crazy. I have the idle section of the VE table down to 20 to 24 and still running 10.4 to 10.7 at idle. Once the closed loop comes in the idle will creep up to 12.4 but surges off and on. I only have gotten to this point by raising the voltage from 5.6 to 9.8 volts at idle............I'm new and did have this running pretty well with no issues then my stock injector stuck open so I said time to upgrade getting ready for boost anyway. So i bought FIC 1000cc injectors and updated the injector data they provided and its way off.
    Their fuel mass data is in mg, car tune is g. Did you covert mg to g and enter data?

    Went to second page and entered voltage offset data.

    Just asking, not sure what you did.
    Last edited by coanan; 01-12-2022 at 02:21 PM.
    2018 Trackhawk PCM/TCM tune by Dusterhoff.
    Flex Fuel, MMX faux 95mm TB, GripTec 2.85, 10% ATI lower, FIC1200, ARH 1 7/8 w/cats, 180 T-stat

    13 Chrysler 300S, RAM BGE 412 stroker, cam motion 232/246 619/619 118 +4, ATI 18% OD pulley
    Whipple Gen5 3.0, 2.50 upper pulley, Smooth Boost controller, FIC 1200 inj. Nick W 108mm TB, FORE dual return fuel system, E85, FTI 2800 stall(SRT83380), SHR WAR Viking trans and valve body, Getrag 3.73, 1 7/8 kooks w/hi-flow cats, 3" Magnaflow Cat-back 943rwhp

  5. #65
    Advanced Tuner coanan's Avatar
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    I just installed 1200 in mine. Entered data as show(clarify, after converting FMass to G) and it fired right up with pretty good trims.
    Last edited by coanan; 01-12-2022 at 03:12 PM.
    2018 Trackhawk PCM/TCM tune by Dusterhoff.
    Flex Fuel, MMX faux 95mm TB, GripTec 2.85, 10% ATI lower, FIC1200, ARH 1 7/8 w/cats, 180 T-stat

    13 Chrysler 300S, RAM BGE 412 stroker, cam motion 232/246 619/619 118 +4, ATI 18% OD pulley
    Whipple Gen5 3.0, 2.50 upper pulley, Smooth Boost controller, FIC 1200 inj. Nick W 108mm TB, FORE dual return fuel system, E85, FTI 2800 stall(SRT83380), SHR WAR Viking trans and valve body, Getrag 3.73, 1 7/8 kooks w/hi-flow cats, 3" Magnaflow Cat-back 943rwhp

  6. #66
    Tuner in Training Hammersrt's Avatar
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    I entered data as it was given. I believe the correct tables was used......I'm trying to include pics of the data20220112_141530.jpg20220112_141613.jpg
    Last edited by Hammersrt; 01-12-2022 at 02:36 PM. Reason: trying to upload pics

  7. #67
    Tuner in Training Hammersrt's Avatar
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    Well I have a 6.4 stroked to 430 cubes 7.0. Edelbrock heads, Intake and a VMP 105 TB, Crane 274 cam Kooks 2 inch primary but still have stock fuel system, working on this next

  8. #68
    Advanced Tuner coanan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammersrt View Post
    I entered data as it was given. I believe the correct tables was used......I'm trying to include pics of the data20220112_141530.jpg20220112_141613.jpg
    did you convert fuel mass data from mg to g
    2018 Trackhawk PCM/TCM tune by Dusterhoff.
    Flex Fuel, MMX faux 95mm TB, GripTec 2.85, 10% ATI lower, FIC1200, ARH 1 7/8 w/cats, 180 T-stat

    13 Chrysler 300S, RAM BGE 412 stroker, cam motion 232/246 619/619 118 +4, ATI 18% OD pulley
    Whipple Gen5 3.0, 2.50 upper pulley, Smooth Boost controller, FIC 1200 inj. Nick W 108mm TB, FORE dual return fuel system, E85, FTI 2800 stall(SRT83380), SHR WAR Viking trans and valve body, Getrag 3.73, 1 7/8 kooks w/hi-flow cats, 3" Magnaflow Cat-back 943rwhp

  9. #69
    Advanced Tuner coanan's Avatar
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    0.382 would be .00382

    1.132 would be .001132

    and so on
    2018 Trackhawk PCM/TCM tune by Dusterhoff.
    Flex Fuel, MMX faux 95mm TB, GripTec 2.85, 10% ATI lower, FIC1200, ARH 1 7/8 w/cats, 180 T-stat

    13 Chrysler 300S, RAM BGE 412 stroker, cam motion 232/246 619/619 118 +4, ATI 18% OD pulley
    Whipple Gen5 3.0, 2.50 upper pulley, Smooth Boost controller, FIC 1200 inj. Nick W 108mm TB, FORE dual return fuel system, E85, FTI 2800 stall(SRT83380), SHR WAR Viking trans and valve body, Getrag 3.73, 1 7/8 kooks w/hi-flow cats, 3" Magnaflow Cat-back 943rwhp

  10. #70
    Tuner in Training Hammersrt's Avatar
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    No sir I didn't, I just thought copy and paste and I was done..........evidently not what what you are saying......like I said I'm new and still learning........Now I will have to do this and see how she works out

  11. #71
    Advanced Tuner coanan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammersrt View Post
    No sir I didn't, I just thought copy and paste and I was done..........evidently not what what you are saying......like I said I'm new and still learning........Now I will have to do this and see how she works out
    Just let us know how things turn out.
    2018 Trackhawk PCM/TCM tune by Dusterhoff.
    Flex Fuel, MMX faux 95mm TB, GripTec 2.85, 10% ATI lower, FIC1200, ARH 1 7/8 w/cats, 180 T-stat

    13 Chrysler 300S, RAM BGE 412 stroker, cam motion 232/246 619/619 118 +4, ATI 18% OD pulley
    Whipple Gen5 3.0, 2.50 upper pulley, Smooth Boost controller, FIC 1200 inj. Nick W 108mm TB, FORE dual return fuel system, E85, FTI 2800 stall(SRT83380), SHR WAR Viking trans and valve body, Getrag 3.73, 1 7/8 kooks w/hi-flow cats, 3" Magnaflow Cat-back 943rwhp

  12. #72
    Tuner in Training Hammersrt's Avatar
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    Well I did the conversion and had to lower the offset voltage data about 20% to get in the mid 12.5 to 12.8 range for idle. Of course as soon as I try to give any throttle it goes to 9.4. I have went in the VE tables and have lowered the % by about half. I ran out of time and daylight. Will try to get over there and see if I can make some more headway. I have learned a lot but I see I'm still just barely scratching the surface. It would be great if you could tune in real time.......I see some GM years are that way. I guess the part I'm still puzzled by if your given injector data and they know the type of vehicle and format used for that vehicle why wouldn't be correct to just import the data given???? Would that make it so easy??

  13. #73
    Advanced Tuner coanan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammersrt View Post
    Well I did the conversion and had to lower the offset voltage data about 20% to get in the mid 12.5 to 12.8 range for idle. Of course as soon as I try to give any throttle it goes to 9.4. I have went in the VE tables and have lowered the % by about half. I ran out of time and daylight. Will try to get over there and see if I can make some more headway. I have learned a lot but I see I'm still just barely scratching the surface. It would be great if you could tune in real time.......I see some GM years are that way. I guess the part I'm still puzzled by if your given injector data and they know the type of vehicle and format used for that vehicle why wouldn't be correct to just import the data given???? Would that make it so easy??
    Probably have a few other things going on in tune then.

    MOPAR isn't easy, I'm still fumbling my way around with trial and error.

    This new build is getting a pro tune.
    2018 Trackhawk PCM/TCM tune by Dusterhoff.
    Flex Fuel, MMX faux 95mm TB, GripTec 2.85, 10% ATI lower, FIC1200, ARH 1 7/8 w/cats, 180 T-stat

    13 Chrysler 300S, RAM BGE 412 stroker, cam motion 232/246 619/619 118 +4, ATI 18% OD pulley
    Whipple Gen5 3.0, 2.50 upper pulley, Smooth Boost controller, FIC 1200 inj. Nick W 108mm TB, FORE dual return fuel system, E85, FTI 2800 stall(SRT83380), SHR WAR Viking trans and valve body, Getrag 3.73, 1 7/8 kooks w/hi-flow cats, 3" Magnaflow Cat-back 943rwhp

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by coanan View Post
    Probably have a few other things going on in tune then.

    MOPAR isn't easy, I'm still fumbling my way around with trial and error.

    This new build is getting a pro tune.
    I always cringe a little bit every time someone says they're getting a "pro tune", as that term has many times found itself as purely a marketing ploy where someone with either very little clue or very little care/attention to detail (or both) had been the "pro" behind the keyboard.

    Scary, the things you often see from some of the "pros"...

  15. #75
    Advanced Tuner coanan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B00STJUNKY View Post
    I always cringe a little bit every time someone says they're getting a "pro tune", as that term has many times found itself as purely a marketing ploy where someone with either very little clue or very little care/attention to detail (or both) had been the "pro" behind the keyboard.

    Scary, the things you often see from some of the "pros"...
    When I say pro, I mean a shop with a proven record at the track. Demon Performance, Dusterhoff, Satera and a few more.

    I'm sure there are others not so famous, but I don't know them.

    Some one that knows a lot more than me.
    2018 Trackhawk PCM/TCM tune by Dusterhoff.
    Flex Fuel, MMX faux 95mm TB, GripTec 2.85, 10% ATI lower, FIC1200, ARH 1 7/8 w/cats, 180 T-stat

    13 Chrysler 300S, RAM BGE 412 stroker, cam motion 232/246 619/619 118 +4, ATI 18% OD pulley
    Whipple Gen5 3.0, 2.50 upper pulley, Smooth Boost controller, FIC 1200 inj. Nick W 108mm TB, FORE dual return fuel system, E85, FTI 2800 stall(SRT83380), SHR WAR Viking trans and valve body, Getrag 3.73, 1 7/8 kooks w/hi-flow cats, 3" Magnaflow Cat-back 943rwhp

  16. #76
    Advanced Tuner 4wheelinls1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammersrt View Post
    Well I did the conversion and had to lower the offset voltage data about 20% to get in the mid 12.5 to 12.8 range for idle. Of course as soon as I try to give any throttle it goes to 9.4. I have went in the VE tables and have lowered the % by about half. I ran out of time and daylight. Will try to get over there and see if I can make some more headway. I have learned a lot but I see I'm still just barely scratching the surface. It would be great if you could tune in real time.......I see some GM years are that way. I guess the part I'm still puzzled by if your given injector data and they know the type of vehicle and format used for that vehicle why wouldn't be correct to just import the data given???? Would that make it so easy??
    The VE table does nothing in a variable cam car using Neural network, you should retrain the Neural Network so the airflow calculations are correct.

  17. #77
    Tuner in Training Hammersrt's Avatar
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    You need to get the tune close to being right before trying to have NN recalculated right? Thats what I hear........get it close to being right.........then pay HP Tuners to recalculate the NN..........I have been working on trying to get these larger injectors to run right at idle...............have adjusted the offset Injector table and modified the fuel mass to inj. pulse width also......its better and idles pretty smooth but still rich after running for a bit in closed loop

  18. #78
    Advanced Tuner 4wheelinls1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammersrt View Post
    You need to get the tune close to being right before trying to have NN recalculated right? Thats what I hear........get it close to being right.........then pay HP Tuners to recalculate the NN..........I have been working on trying to get these larger injectors to run right at idle...............have adjusted the offset Injector table and modified the fuel mass to inj. pulse width also......its better and idles pretty smooth but still rich after running for a bit in closed loop
    You need to have the injector data correct and an accurate AFR wideband as you are recalculating the airflow. You need to work out the limits of the camshaft if a limiter is fitted and you need to set the NN limits for RPM and Pressure ratio, VE ETC. You don't pay to recalculate as such, what you buy is time on the HP server as the NN recalculation takes masses of computing power. When you put a stock file into the trainer you get a result which is 25 camshaft position related VE tables, as the V8 cam is fixed LSA, solid, you only need to train 5 VE tables, to do this requires setting the cam position in software, logging and correcting the VE table for each position until the trims are low and the mixture at the pipe equals the commanded.
    No point chasing idle and stuff until the NN is correct as this is the source of the airflow calculation. Its like a fancy extrapolation between the cam position maps to accommodate the shifting VE airflow.

    Adjusting the injector data away form the bench values is tuning the injector to the modifications, you should be tuning the airflow to the modifications and using the accurate unmolested injector data as a constant. If you know the mixture and the commanded mixture and the injector data is correct it is possible to work out the airflow, which is what has changed when you modify the engine.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammersrt View Post
    I have a 6.4 stroked to 7.0. I installed FIC 1000cc injectors and installed the supplied data for the injectors and I have 2 issues. One runs very rich at idle and surges, on the offset table when I put in their data it pulses and sounds like a blown supercharged engine surging big time at idle. The min. pulse rate that came with them is .350 still way to rich so I have brought it down to .150 has helped some but not enough. Any thoughts on this???
    I just installed the same injectors, 6.4 cammed, headers and supercharger. It fired right up, and seems to idle pretty good. I have NN off. Should I be tuning the VE tables first or the injector pw tables? Also when I entered the fuel mass axis on the pulse with vs fuel mass table I get and error, axis values appear to be an error, is that normal?
    Last edited by ramdart74; 02-12-2022 at 06:16 PM.

  20. #80
    Advanced Tuner 4wheelinls1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramdart74 View Post
    I just installed the same injectors, 6.4 cammed, headers and supercharger. It fired right up, and seems to idle pretty good. I have NN off. Should I be tuning the VE tables first or the injector pw tables? Also when I entered the fuel mass axis on the pulse with vs fuel mass table I get and error, axis values appear to be an error, is that normal?
    If you have NN off tune the VE, but you will never get it 100% while the car has variable cam.