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Thread: The TRUE and Proper way to enter Injector Data

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by blownbluez06 View Post
    If there is a large difference in size between the Siemens 80's and the stock injectors you're referring to, the only way it makes sense to me that they would be so similar at low pulse-widths is if the offsets are too high on the Siemens or too low on the stockers. With proper offsets, I expect that their flow is a lot more linear than that.
    Siemens has all their data published. It just has to be translated from Ford-eze to Chrysler, which isn't too hard.
    You're right, their mass flow at low ipw are no where near stock, not even close.

  2. #22
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    To make the injector scaling easier in HPT it would be a grat step to show the injector timing and mg/sec in a two column table instead like the actual one column and y(row) axis style

    Yes i know it would be like in CMR then but it's way more descriptive there
    Last edited by DH Individual; 07-25-2015 at 04:52 PM.
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  3. #23
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    ok i need help. Which table(s) need modified when just changing injectors. I understan the percent difference from lets say stock injector to the 62s i put in this 6.1 but what i dont see nor understand is what tables to multiply. Help.

  4. #24
    Here's my research

    Bosch 60lb gt500 injectors 0280158298:
    InjPW vs Fuel mass:
    0 0
    0.00021875 0.032
    0.001203125 0.128
    0.0034375 0.232
    0.004 0.328
    0.0045625 0.432
    0.00540625 0.528
    0.0061875 0.632
    0.006921875 0.728
    0.008078125 0.928
    0.01203125 1.232
    0.01553125 1.728
    0.090125 10
    0.695046875 100


    Fuel mass vs InjPW
    0 0
    0.032 0.00021875
    0.128 0.001203125
    0.232 0.0034375
    0.328 0.004
    0.432 0.0045625
    0.528 0.00540625
    0.632 0.0061875
    0.728 0.006921875
    0.928 0.008078125
    1.232 0.01203125
    1.728 0.01553125
    10 0.090125
    100 0.695046875

    Ford racing Siemens Deka 80lb:
    InjPW vs Fuel mass:
    0
    0.004 0.104
    0.00778125 0.2
    0.00925 0.304
    0.00990625 0.4
    0.010765625 0.504
    0.012265625 0.6
    0.01371875 0.704
    0.016 0.904
    0.022015625 1.2
    0.0295625 1.8
    0.042140625 2.8
    0.11575 10
    0.169359375 15


    Fuel mass vs InjPW
    0 0
    0.104 0.004
    0.2 0.00778125
    0.304 0.00925
    0.4 0.00990625
    0.504 0.010765625
    0.6 0.012265625
    0.704 0.01371875
    0.904 0.016
    1.2 0.022015625
    1.8 0.0295625
    2.8 0.042140625
    10 0.11575
    15 0.169359375
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by i tried View Post
    ok i need help. Which table(s) need modified when just changing injectors. I understan the percent difference from lets say stock injector to the 62s i put in this 6.1 but what i dont see nor understand is what tables to multiply. Help.
    See my post on page 1, there is exactly written what to do.
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  6. #26
    May be anyone has table to use for ID 850 cc injectors to use for Jeep SRT8 2008" ?

    another question is for parameter: Startup InjPW Scalar - i assume this one should be lowered as well for the % of bigger injectors over stock ones, right?

  7. #27
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    I use ID850's in my 6.1 based 300 SRT8. I use 3.001 as the Startup InjPW Scalar, though that was input by a prior tuner.

    ID850's are fully mapped out on their website with scalars and flows. Make sure you check it out.

  8. #28
    Tuner Pector55's Avatar
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    This is a fantastic thread. I'm upgrading from the 5.7 injectors to the 6.4's. Originally I thought about the % difference method mentioned in this thread but I have the ability to look at the injector settings from a 6.4 stock tune. Would it be accurate to use the stock 6.4 tune data as a good starting point?

    In the attachment I can see the tables to observe differences. My thought was to verify these using the math from this thread but I wanted to ask for opinions.2016-04-02_1416.png
    2013 Dodge Challenger RT Plus - Shaker

  9. #29
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    +1 for this thread. Super helpful when scaling my 1200cc injectors on my srt4!

  10. #30
    Senior Tuner Mep_q8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caniggia View Post
    Here's my research

    Bosch 60lb gt500 injectors 0280158298:
    InjPW vs Fuel mass:
    0 0
    0.00021875 0.032
    0.001203125 0.128
    0.0034375 0.232
    0.004 0.328
    0.0045625 0.432
    0.00540625 0.528
    0.0061875 0.632
    0.006921875 0.728
    0.008078125 0.928
    0.01203125 1.232
    0.01553125 1.728
    0.090125 10
    0.695046875 100


    Fuel mass vs InjPW
    0 0
    0.032 0.00021875
    0.128 0.001203125
    0.232 0.0034375
    0.328 0.004
    0.432 0.0045625
    0.528 0.00540625
    0.632 0.0061875
    0.728 0.006921875
    0.928 0.008078125
    1.232 0.01203125
    1.728 0.01553125
    10 0.090125
    100 0.695046875

    Ford racing Siemens Deka 80lb:
    InjPW vs Fuel mass:
    0
    0.004 0.104
    0.00778125 0.2
    0.00925 0.304
    0.00990625 0.4
    0.010765625 0.504
    0.012265625 0.6
    0.01371875 0.704
    0.016 0.904
    0.022015625 1.2
    0.0295625 1.8
    0.042140625 2.8
    0.11575 10
    0.169359375 15


    Fuel mass vs InjPW
    0 0
    0.104 0.004
    0.2 0.00778125
    0.304 0.00925
    0.4 0.00990625
    0.504 0.010765625
    0.6 0.012265625
    0.704 0.01371875
    0.904 0.016
    1.2 0.022015625
    1.8 0.0295625
    2.8 0.042140625
    10 0.11575
    15 0.169359375
    This is the right way to get it done. HP Tuners is an amazing tool, and you should think of it that way. We adjust tools to suit our needs, we adjust the tune to also suit our needs. Since the best resolution on the stock file is up to 10ms on the injector, a good way to get them to read proper when needing more fueling at higher boost levels would be to manipulate the Y-axis similar to what was done above.

    This would get you more control over your injector, instead of the almost infinite last value on the injector scale. A way to make this easier is to get the last 10ms table values, double them to 20ms and there you go, more control of your bigger injector

    Bader Norris
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  11. #31
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    hi
    can i make backfire in certain RPM with this method
    Last edited by memet_engineer; 09-11-2016 at 05:50 PM.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by memet_engineer View Post
    hi
    can i make backfire in certain RPM with this method
    Decel backfire has a lot more to do with ignition advance along with DFCO settings than making the car stray from stoich on decel. Whenever you're in decel mode, you're still running in closed loop, so trying to stray from stoich on decel will just result in the STFT and LTFT working overtime while decelerating, all the while still running at soich (or, if you go extreme enough that the fuel trims run out of room for adjustment, you'll just throw a CEL).
    Last edited by B00STJUNKY; 09-11-2016 at 09:52 PM.

  13. #33
    Btw, backfire usually is from running lean.
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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by caniggia View Post
    Btw, backfire usually is from running lean.
    You're quite right, as my experience has been exactly that when running an EMS and having the low load (decel) portions of the map running in the 16-17:1 AFR range, which resulted in decel pops/backfires (wasn't intentional, just wasn't really concerned with decel AFR and happened to notice that the lean AFR on decel resulted in those pops/backfires). I corrected my above post to account for folks trying to go one way or the other with AFR. Seems a common misconception that I've read from folks stating that running rich on decel will cause the backfire (presumably from "loading up the exhaust with unburnt fuel, leading to eventual backfire from residual heat igniting said fuel").

    But to further speak to ignition timing having a direct effect on decel popping/backfiring, I discovered this while comparing calibrations from a stock Neon SRT-4 vs a Mopar S1 calibration which has MUCH more popping/gurgling/backfiring on decel than stock does. I noticed the changes that affected decel backfire were in the PT Ignition Timing in the extreme low load sections of the map (decel) where timing was dialed way, WAY back from the stock calibration. Mimicking those exact changes on a stock calibration resulted in getting the same pops/gurgles on decel that a Mopar calibration would give.

    Seems a lot of customers really like that effect.
    Last edited by B00STJUNKY; 09-11-2016 at 10:03 PM.

  15. #35
    I may have missed it but on the injector data, it says that the InjPW vs Fuel Mass must be inverse of the Fuel Mass vs InjPW table. How do you get the left column numbers to change to match the edit-able right column number?

    Thanks

    Mike
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    Plainfield, IN 46168
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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Norris View Post
    I may have missed it but on the injector data, it says that the InjPW vs Fuel Mass must be inverse of the Fuel Mass vs InjPW table. How do you get the left column numbers to change to match the edit-able right column number?

    Thanks

    Mike
    Click on the left where the left hand column is named and the axis editor will pop up.

  17. #37
    good info
    09 Pontiac G8GT LSA conversion & cammed (HP Tuned)
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  18. #38
    Senior Tuner mowton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caniggia View Post
    Here's my research

    Ford racing Siemens Deka 80lb:
    InjPW vs Fuel mass:
    0
    0.004 0.104
    0.00778125 0.2
    0.00925 0.304
    0.00990625 0.4
    0.010765625 0.504
    0.012265625 0.6
    0.01371875 0.704
    0.016 0.904
    0.022015625 1.2
    0.0295625 1.8
    0.042140625 2.8
    0.11575 10
    0.169359375 15


    Fuel mass vs InjPW
    0 0
    0.104 0.004
    0.2 0.00778125
    0.304 0.00925
    0.4 0.00990625
    0.504 0.010765625
    0.6 0.012265625
    0.704 0.01371875
    0.904 0.016
    1.2 0.022015625
    1.8 0.0295625
    2.8 0.042140625
    10 0.11575
    15 0.169359375
    I know this is old but am struggling with creating a calculator to convert Dodge injector flow rates. Quick question....if the SD 80 flow 89.233 lb/hr or 11.31 g/sec at 4 bar (58 PSI), how could a 1.2 ms pulse width equal .022 g/ms? why isn't it closer to the 1 ms value of .01131? What am I missing. I believe the Dodge is running 58 psi fuel pressure as well.

    Thx

    Ed M
    Last edited by mowton; 03-08-2017 at 01:46 PM.
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  19. #39
    Senior Tuner mowton's Avatar
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    TTT ^^^^^^^^^^

    Ed M
    2004 Vette Coupe, LS2, MN6, Vararam, ARH/CATs, Ti's, 4:10, Trickflow 215, 30# SVO, Vette Doctors Cam, Fast 90/90, DD McLeod, DTE Brace, Hurst shifter, Bilsteins etc. 480/430

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  20. #40
    This are values finally tuned on car, math it's math, but as stated on first page, you need to make finall adjustment by logging.
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