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Thread: 2014 Camaro L99 Automatic Eforce, misfire cylinder 7 and 4

  1. #1
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    2014 Camaro L99 Automatic Eforce, misfire cylinder 7 and 4

    hi guys,

    we installed a brand new eforce p/n 1562 into 2014 Camaro.
    installation was plain with no issues.
    but has soon as you drive the car a little bit there is misfire on cylinder 7 and 4
    I suppose the problem is on 7 and 4 is only following
    already checked wiring for pinching all ok
    already checked spark plug (gapped to 0.35) all ok
    already swapped spark plug wire ok
    sprayed carb cleaner all ok
    I removed spark plug and 7 one is very dark with deposit, 4 is ok like others
    spark plug are OEM ACdelco
    SCT tuner is alredy update to last sw

    any good idea for us?
    any tip?
    thank you so much!
    best regards
    Last edited by Christian GM; 02-27-2015 at 11:00 AM. Reason: add SCT info

  2. #2
    Senior Tuner mowton's Avatar
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    Try TR6 at .030 gap.

    Ed M
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  3. #3
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    Thank you.
    I've in stock part number 3689 that is TR6IX... It's ok?
    Why so sensitive on those two cylinders about spark???
    Bye

  4. #4
    Senior Tuner mowton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian GM View Post
    Thank you.
    I've in stock part number 3689 that is TR6IX... It's ok?
    Why so sensitive on those two cylinders about spark???
    Bye
    different banks and different holes????? Hope someone else can chime in. Have done a few 2012 and 13's but no '14 Camaro's, sorry

    Ed M
    Last edited by mowton; 02-28-2015 at 02:13 PM.
    2004 Vette Coupe, LS2, MN6, Vararam, ARH/CATs, Ti's, 4:10, Trickflow 215, 30# SVO, Vette Doctors Cam, Fast 90/90, DD McLeod, DTE Brace, Hurst shifter, Bilsteins etc. 480/430

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  5. #5
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    Hello
    14 has the same engine like 12 & 13
    Is not direct injection like corvette...

  6. #6
    Senior Tuner mowton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian GM View Post
    Hello
    14 has the same engine like 12 & 13
    Is not direct injection like corvette...
    Right, sorry my bad....still have not seen this situation......7 is the leanest hole....

    Crank sensor/relearn.....
    Ed M
    Last edited by mowton; 02-27-2015 at 02:51 PM.
    2004 Vette Coupe, LS2, MN6, Vararam, ARH/CATs, Ti's, 4:10, Trickflow 215, 30# SVO, Vette Doctors Cam, Fast 90/90, DD McLeod, DTE Brace, Hurst shifter, Bilsteins etc. 480/430

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  7. #7
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    Try new plugs and wires.

    But also, I've tuned the E-Force Camaro kit, replace that intake box with something else, it'll be too restrictive, you'll see the MAF frequency fluctuate and have trouble holding an AFR. We reused the customer's former Airaid filter setup, made it work, and with tuning it ran like a bull.

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    Hi,
    New plugs on the way should have them on Monday. New wires already in, LS7 red ones.
    I've on hand the former K/N air filter too, I will find the way to install it.
    I'm just worried that the problem could be mechanical I mean related to the DOD valves removed and it's modification...
    Maybe a loss of oil pressure cause issues on valve opening?
    Also why spark on 7 is dark with cabin on it?
    Fuel pump is OEM just tweak by E-force tuning....
    There is something strange here to me...
    Thank you

  9. #9
    Senior Tuner mowton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian GM View Post
    Hi,
    New plugs on the way should have them on Monday. New wires already in, LS7 red ones.
    I've on hand the former K/N air filter too, I will find the way to install it.
    I'm just worried that the problem could be mechanical I mean related to the DOD valves removed and it's modification...
    Maybe a loss of oil pressure cause issues on valve opening?
    Also why spark on 7 is dark with cabin on it?
    Fuel pump is OEM just tweak by E-force tuning....
    There is something strange here to me...
    Thank you
    7 plug as I said is the lean cylinder so it sounds like a fuel supply issue. Went over sime notws from previous builds. Looks like knock was always the issue, not misfire. What size pulleys? Where are the ipw at 6000+..? Have you checked the fuel pressure at 6000+? As I remember, these setups do push the stock fuel system to the limits.

    I'll check the tune files in the am when I get to my computer. Looks like Fuel Pump settings are stock? If fuel delivery is an issue, try upping the high flow psi 10 lbs or so and the fuel pump duty cycle from 90% to 99%.

    Ed M
    Last edited by mowton; 02-28-2015 at 03:44 AM.
    2004 Vette Coupe, LS2, MN6, Vararam, ARH/CATs, Ti's, 4:10, Trickflow 215, 30# SVO, Vette Doctors Cam, Fast 90/90, DD McLeod, DTE Brace, Hurst shifter, Bilsteins etc. 480/430

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  10. #10
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    If you check the log the problem occurs both on wide throttle and also on low load normal cruising, this is why I'm confused...
    Fuel pressure should not be a problem on low load condition...

  11. #11
    Senior Tuner mowton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian GM View Post
    If you check the log the problem occurs both on wide throttle and also on low load normal cruising, this is why I'm confused...
    Fuel pressure should not be a problem on low load condition...
    The one thing I notice is your PE activation is very slow in the lower rpm area's where you are carrying 90+ kPa and still commanding stoich. I would lower the hot pedal at the lower rpm areas (1500+) to 10 up to 4000 rpm. Up the map enable to 85 kPa. See if that has any positive effect, especially with the lean #7 cylinder.

    Also I don't see a means for determining the lambda/AFR, the LC-1 PID seems to be frozen at like 11.67?

    Ed M
    Last edited by mowton; 02-28-2015 at 08:38 AM.
    2004 Vette Coupe, LS2, MN6, Vararam, ARH/CATs, Ti's, 4:10, Trickflow 215, 30# SVO, Vette Doctors Cam, Fast 90/90, DD McLeod, DTE Brace, Hurst shifter, Bilsteins etc. 480/430

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mowton View Post
    The one thing I notice is your PE activation is very slow in the lower rpm area's where you are carrying 90+ kPa and still commanding stoich. I would lower the hot pedal at the lower rpm areas (1500+) to 10 up to 4000 rpm. Up the map enable to 85 kPa. See if that has any positive effect, especially with the lean #7 cylinder.

    Also I don't see a means for determining the lambda/AFR, the LC-1 PID seems to be frozen at like 11.67?

    Ed M
    Hi,
    since this should be a "plug and play" kit from Edelbrock, I did not setup the wide band.
    just hooked the scanner to see what's going on after installation.
    Surely if I need to go deeper in the tune, I will hook up the wide band...
    I was hoping in something easier,,, you know!

  13. #13
    Senior Tuner mowton's Avatar
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    Actually have to say I am not really sure what you are going for here. I have contributed several ideas and none seem to fit your fancy or satisfy your needs. I have found e-force installs don't always "go as planned", especially on camaro's.

    Ed M
    2004 Vette Coupe, LS2, MN6, Vararam, ARH/CATs, Ti's, 4:10, Trickflow 215, 30# SVO, Vette Doctors Cam, Fast 90/90, DD McLeod, DTE Brace, Hurst shifter, Bilsteins etc. 480/430

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  14. #14
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    It's true the opposite!
    I appreciate all your inputs
    I will check everything Monday when back in office and share the fix with the community.
    Thank you and have a great weekend! :-)

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    I may be over stepping my bounds here, but you said it's missing on #7 and #4? Both originally DOD cylinders (4,6,1,7)... Cylinder 7 is carbon fouling? Very rich??? While cylinder 4 is normal? You have verified that this is an actual misfire - can be felt??? You installed a DOD elimination plate kit - (Removed the VLOM or just did a drill method?)... These DOD lifters and oil passages are so sensitive that I have seen dealerships do something as simple as change the oil and have something break loose and clog an oil feed resulting in the vlom and or lifters to be replaced. Yall didn't drill or machine anywhere near the open engine did you? Replaced many vloms and lifters because of this. I would wonder if you either have an oil supply or valvetrain issue. You can also have "phantom" misfires with GM vehicles where you have one definate "bad" cylinder that slows the crank down enough to simulate or heighten the effects of another slightly weak cylinder. In other words, I would focus on 7 and not worry about 4 just yet. Do compression and leak down test. Then finally a running compression test while comparing to another known good cylinder to see if you can catch your problem. You can even remove the valve cover and let it idle and maybe slightly free rev her to see if your lifters are going. Did you do any kind of spring upgrade without replacing lifters? Like I said these DOD lifters barely hold up with normal conditions - been redesigned several times...

    Was also wondering how you tuned it without a wideband? O2's are worthless... With the right skewings they can think 15 or 16.something to 1 is normal. Really hope you atleast used a "sniffer" if nothing else to verify correct A/F ratios.
    Last edited by GHuggins; 02-28-2015 at 01:55 PM.
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  16. #16
    Senior Tuner mowton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GHuggins View Post
    I may be over stepping my bounds here, but you said it's missing on #7 and #4? Both originally DOD cylinders (4,6,1,7)... Cylinder 7 is carbon fouling? Very rich??? While cylinder 4 is normal? You have verified that this is an actual misfire - can be felt??? You installed a DOD elimination plate kit - (Removed the VLOM or just did a drill method?)... These DOD lifters and oil passages are so sensitive that I have seen dealerships do something as simple as change the oil and have something break loose and clog an oil feed resulting in the vlom and or lifters to be replaced. Yall didn't drill or machine anywhere near the open engine did you? Replaced many vloms and lifters because of this. I would wonder if you either have an oil supply or valvetrain issue. You can also have "phantom" misfires with GM vehicles where you have one definate "bad" cylinder that slows the crank down enough to simulate or heighten the effects of another slightly weak cylinder. In other words, I would focus on 7 and not worry about 4 just yet. Do compression and leak down test. Then finally a running compression test while comparing to another known good cylinder to see if you can catch your problem. You can even remove the valve cover and let it idle and maybe slightly free rev her to see if your lifters are going. Did you do any kind of spring upgrade without replacing lifters? Like I said these DOD lifters barely hold up with normal conditions - been redesigned several times...

    Was also wondering how you tuned it without a wideband? O2's are worthless... With the right skewings they can think 15 or 16.something to 1 is normal. Really hope you atleast used a "sniffer" if nothing else to verify correct A/F ratios.
    That is very interesting for sure. We have seen several conversions of 2010-2013 setups (Vettes and Camaros) experience "lifter" issues during the conversion/tune process. Thank you for sharing.

    Ed M
    2004 Vette Coupe, LS2, MN6, Vararam, ARH/CATs, Ti's, 4:10, Trickflow 215, 30# SVO, Vette Doctors Cam, Fast 90/90, DD McLeod, DTE Brace, Hurst shifter, Bilsteins etc. 480/430

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  17. #17
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    Hi guys,
    I did not tune the car simply download the latest file Edelbrock supply with SCT tuner
    Now the car is not ok, so I must fix it one way or another. Edelbrock says is not issues related with them.
    We carefully followed instruction to delete DOD.
    My feeling is on the lifter too. Driving the car I feel it going halfway on DOD... It's hard to explain I'm not English, but I double check the tune DOD and it's disabled.
    If new plugs can't help me I need to chose, going to check the valley plate our remove the heads and replace lifter?
    Good question, LOL
    Customer will not enjoy the extra amount of money needed...If any
    more I think on this, more I'm sure problem is on 7 only and it's mechanical not tune or spark or fuel
    But I've no access to the car since I posted the first message until Monday morning,
    Will be a long day...
    Thank you again for all replies

  18. #18
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    hi guys,
    did a compression test, found 9 on cylinder 7&4 and 12 on the others.
    I'm removing valley plate and keep you posted
    bye

  19. #19
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    misfire fixed but poor power gain

    hi guys,

    we found the misfire issue and fix it out.
    the guy who did the conversion put some RTV on the DOD valley plate to help on leak...
    I say to him to put it to prevent leak but only on the outer seal.
    he put it on all the orange OEM seals, doing so he plugged a bit the lifter oil gallery and the bleed hole you need to create on the gasket does not work.
    so... using the car the oil on the DOD lifter keep them a little bit under pressure leaving the valves a little bit open, this is the reason of the low compression.
    cleaned it, reainstalled and the car is ok, no more misfire.
    thank you for all the support found here!
    another knowledge gained on the DOD system

  20. #20
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    by the way,
    using the car here I don't feel so much power gain.
    you can barely ear the compressor working
    I don't feel the 599 HP promised by the Edelbrock commercial at all.
    the kit is 100% stock by Edelbrock, nothing modified on the tune not on the intake.
    I think that sending back the car to the customer he will kick my ass.
    I've on hand the K/N 63-3064... maybe modify it to gain better intake???
    what you can reccomend based on your experience???
    thank you so much!!!