cam timing question

[bluegoat06]

Especifically to the concept of advancing or retarding the cams since I think I have this backwards.
for the intake portion, we have - numbers in the low rpm that seem to decrease towards zero with more rpm.
For the exhaust can, smaller numbers in the low rpm portion that increase in value with Rpm.

So, when we refer to advancing the intake cam, do I make the numbers more negative or more positive with respect I zero in the table?, and same fqueation or the exhaust, if I want to retard the exhaust cam, do I increase or decrease this values with respect of zero?

Thanks a lot

[txcharlie]

I think the - numbers represent opening the intake valves before TDC, so the higher the negative number the more advanced the timing. The positive numbers are for exhaust valve closing and are after TDC. So a -30 ivo and 30 evc would give you a 60* overlap.
I saw this effect when trying different cam timing to get the best "lope" for the cammed tune. I found -40 and 30 seems to have the biggest lope, but I did not try every combination. I am no expert and may misunderstand the process, but that's my understanding of the way it works. I'm sure some of the gurus can and will help you figure it out.

[taylor476]

you basically retard the intake and advance the exhaust until you find your happy place. but be careful there is what they call a no fly zone where valve crash can occur.

try something like this

intake

-34
-44
-44
-44
-42
-37
-30
-26
-19
-18
-17

and exhaust

0
5
5
10
15
15
14
14
13
13
12

you can go a little more aggresive but thats a good starting pint

[bluegoat06]

Thanks a lot guys, this is where I get confused, shouldn't we be advancing the intake and retarding the exhaust ?
I've been looking at the cam timing events from the Boss 302, in theory we have the same intake cam, why not use that cam timing from the Boss into the GT ?
I though of advancing the intake as making those numbers more negative, because the intake cam angle should indicate valve events BTDC, so an increase in negative should be advance, and decrease in negative should be retard ?, the Boss intake cam angles are all in theory advanced from the factory compared to what in have in the GT ?

And as for retarding the cam exhaust angle, I thought a decrease in this values would indicate a retard in cam timing, and an increase should be advance because of the values are ATDC ?

[taylor476]

even the factory boss cam timing is very mild in comparison to what you can run in these cars nearly all of the power you gain when tuning a coyote comes from cam timing. most of the time on 93 octane you can just use the factory spark maps and set wot lambda to .834 or so. not much leaner. then get your cam timing set where you want depending on intake mani and other mods you might change it around a bit.

[bluegoat06]

Based on the recommendations, this is what i'm running for cam timing now, I need to take the car to the track to test, i'll see if I can do that tonight, only track close to me is a 1/8 though, what should I expect to run in the 1/8 mile with conventional tires on 19" wheels, 8.20 or faster at around 88-91mph ?

[Eric@HPTuners]

In regards to the no-fly zone. It is defined by the parameters below. So long as you don't change these values, nothing you change elsewhere in the VCT setting will allow PTV interference.

Also, note these parameters must always be inverse of each other.

[bluegoat06]

Thanks a lot for the clarification Eric.

[taylor476]

Based on the recommendations, this is what i'm running for cam timing now, I need to take the car to the track to test, i'll see if I can do that tonight, only track close to me is a 1/8 though, what should I expect to run in the 1/8 mile with conventional tires on 19" wheels, 8.20 or faster at around 88-91mph ?

yep id say you will be right around there in the 1/8th.

[VodeAn]

What about for the 2015 Mustangs?

I was able to add 15hp and 13ft/lbs of torque to a bone stock manual 2015 Mustang GT with only AFR and timing adjustments so far.
I want to make sure I go about tuning the cams safely.

Attachment 49197
What tables are safe to modify?

[VodeAn]

I assume Max Phasing Limit is the equivalent to the Overlap Border in the late model s197 mustangs?
Edit: looks like the 2014's have Max Phasing Limit too, so maybe that's not it.

Attached is a screenshot of the stock 2015 OP cam timing tables, looks like the intake cam is retarded at high rpms, maybe too far?

Attachment 49198

[taylor476]

the 2015 has OP disabled in the mapped pints config. eric is working on adding a few more parameters for the 15 gt so we can see what the overlap border is and safely adjust cam timing

[murfie]

Bump for 2015 overlap border tables.

[Blueprint]

Curious as to why not to adjust overlap border. Coyote cookbook advises to adjust them.

[CCS86]

In regards to the no-fly zone. It is defined by the parameters below. So long as you don't change these values, nothing you change elsewhere in the VCT setting will allow PTV interference.

Also, note these parameters must always be inverse of each other.

Hey Eric, which parameters were you referring to?

[Thatwhite5.0]

Hey Eric, which parameters were you referring to?

I believe intake overlap border and exhaust overlap border.

Safe to say I've changed all the parameters in the vct tab except opening and closing on the far left of the vct tab.

I tried advancing op ivo more than -49.9* and couldn't. Theres also an area at high rpm that the intake retards itself.
Theres also a 70* overlap limit. I couldn't advance -49.9 and get the exhaust to retard passed 20*. I could do -45 and 25. But it kept 70*.

[CCS86]

I believe intake overlap border and exhaust overlap border.

Safe to say I've changed all the parameters in the vct tab except opening and closing on the far left of the vct tab.

I tried advancing op ivo more than -49.9* and couldn't. Theres also an area at high rpm that the intake retards itself.
Theres also a 70* overlap limit. I couldn't advance -49.9 and get the exhaust to retard passed 20*. I could do -45 and 25. But it kept 70*.

I'm wondering if the "opening" and "closing" settings are functional. You physically can't change opening without changing closing, so why would they be discrete settings?

The overlap border table values don't make much sense either. Both tables have areas where for a given axis value, there are multiple values assigned. How can the PCM take action with conflicting values?

[kleistang]

Think the overlap border is there for protection as well as to help you trim how much overlap will be allowing at any point in time. in a gen1 if you set intake to -60 (havent gone that far) and exhaust to 45 your positive overlap will be 54 overlap limit at -60 for intake is set to 45 that should trim the cam timing so the cam would not be able to get to -60 and 45 but to something less like -60 intake 36 which would be 45 overlap (think both cams can add or subtract to arrive to a middle point for the 45 overlap total). So should be there for insurance to make sure we dont set timing that could cause damage or extreme powerloss depends on the goal of the cam timing you are setting for. n/a blower, cent, turbo etc. Don't have the camcard on the gen2.

[als008]

Hi guys, so Ive been trauling through all these forum post reading and learning all about Coyote tuning and am now starting to play with the Cams.
Im trying to get a nice idle lope, not so much a chop. Could someone hopefully (Thatwhite5.0) take a look at my files and see what im missing. Ive followed the suggestions regarding Opt Stab, and Emmisions tables to 0. Set my angles for MP0. But for some reason the car always wants to target MP10 for idle.!! What else do I need to keep MP0 as my cam Idle target table. Any suggestions would be great. Thanks in advance.
PS: its a 2018 M6 GT....

~Allen

[Bill88stang]

Should be able to set mp 0-3 Ivo to -21 and will chop.