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Thread: ID 1000 injector data/rough idle when cold

  1. #1
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    ID 1000 injector data/rough idle when cold

    Does the following data fit in with what most guys are using for ID1000 in an FGT. The "pro" tune in this particular car has a rough idle in the morning which the owner would like to get rid of. I don't have ID1000 otherwise I could probably work out a tuning solution.

    Low slope : 106.97 lb/hr
    Hi Slope : 103.97

    B/P 0.0000224

    Offset
    10 1.754
    11 1.502
    12 1.332
    13 1.199
    14 1.088
    15 0.992

    Pw min 0.272

  2. #2
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    ID1000 set .png
    I have used these setting and they worked fine.
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  3. #3
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    Thanks. Keep them coming as interested to see the variances.

    From my quick calcs using the ID1000 characterization tables see the following figures
    Hi slope 115 lb/hr
    lo slope 124 lb/hr

    So it seems that the characterization tables are really just a starting point unless I got something wrong.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbotrana View Post
    Does the following data fit in with what most guys are using for ID1000 in an FGT. The "pro" tune in this particular car has a rough idle in the morning which the owner would like to get rid of. I don't have ID1000 otherwise I could probably work out a tuning solution.

    Low slope : 106.97 lb/hr
    Hi Slope : 103.97

    B/P 0.0000224

    Offset
    10 1.754
    11 1.502
    12 1.332
    13 1.199
    14 1.088
    15 0.992

    Pw min 0.272
    Those Offset figures are from the wrong pressure point (they appear to be approximately 39psi or Ford 2.7 bar values). I have seen tunes with these injectors using the values supplied by Injector Dynamics and the car idles perfectly. As Toads pointed out people just use the ID values and fudge the slopes to get the fuel in the range.

  5. #5
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    What's the LTFT at warm idle like?

    Slopes are close to what you would use on an FG.

    I gather it's lean on start up before closed loop kicks in?

    I would leave the slopes and add deadtime (start with 4 bar ID data) to begin with.

  6. #6
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    I didn't check any trims on the car. Its SCT tuned so I am not touching anything. But as a starting point the injector deadtime (offset) does not match ID data (at 4 bar) so this looks like it needs changing.
    But other than that, its the only thing that stands out it seems.
    Last edited by turbotrana; 03-18-2015 at 07:39 PM.

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    40psiE85sdmap1.pngc40psiID1000.pngI am revisiting this now that I have come across a third car with the above data that has a crap cold start.
    This guy tunes his cars at 39psi (correct darryl) so if you calculate what the 39psi data should be from the ID1000 tables, all his data is correct except for the Hi Slope which I calculate should be around 95lb but he has it at 105lb which would leave it lean in the lower load point areas and cause the crap cold starting. But then in his SD table Map per airmass closed he has increased fueling in the high load areas of the map???

    So in my book I would have rather lowered the high slope so that there is better/more fueling for a cold start up and to get it matching the Fuel Base table at low load/driving areas and then pulled/added fuel via the SD map up top if need be.

    Just wondering if this guy has made a mathematical error in his slopes or is there a reason he has tuned this way???

    The SD map shows the difference to a stock map. He has richened up the tuned map.
    Last edited by turbotrana; 06-07-2016 at 08:11 AM.

  8. #8
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    Hi guys I am having some issues with ID1000 injectors as well, I used the spreadsheet from the Injector Dynamics website and put in 58psi as the fuel pressure. On cold start it hunts on idle for the first 30 seconds or so and will run very lean if I start driving it, once closed loop kicks in it's fine but after logging it for a while the STFT is at +20% higher in the rev range. I tried changing the high slope to a lower value and logged it but higher in the rev range it went from +10% at 2000rpm to +30% STFT by 5000RPM on full throttle and AFR's are in the 10's.

    Here are my settings:
    injectors.jpg
    injectors1.jpg

    Any help or pointers would be appreciated, I'm still learning!
    Last edited by nfs; 12-13-2016 at 03:11 AM.

  9. #9
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    Are you also logging LTFT or have you turned them off? Whats your commanded lambda in your base fuel table?
    Last edited by YoloTuner; 12-13-2016 at 04:40 AM.

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    I haven't turned LTFT off and they were getting to around -10% after I adjusted the high slope I took it for a spin straight away and the LTFT wasn't any higher than 2%.

    I can post up some logs tomorrow if that will help?

    My base fuel table is standard.

  11. #11
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    Turn your O2 sensor off, eg set CL o2 sensor temp to 4095?F and wind the delay out to 65000 seconds (in case the temp limit doesn't work for some reason).

    I had issues with my O2 sensor MASSIVELY overcorrecting when cold, would go to about 17-18:1 lean, then about 11:1 rich and oscillate 2 cycles. The colder it was the worse, would only happen once or twice and come good every single time.

    This was due to someone fucking with the O2 sensor transport tables and generally messing other tables up.

    Anyway if you disable O2 sensor at least you know any issues you have are due to your injectors, fuel reg, fuel pump, or basic fuel slopes and not something stupid like closed loop oscillating.

    Also make sure you aren't getting a misfire, a misfire will cause a lean reading on your wideband. Are you confident you aren't getting a misfire for some reason?

    Also what are your "Fuel base cold" and "fuel base" maps set to?

    Has someone previously tuned your car with SCT? The reason I ask is they have other parameters mapped that HPT doesn't.

    Also is it a stock tune other than the mods you have just made or have you made other changes? Post your tune file up if you can.

    edit: What hardware mods have you done to the car? No vac leaks or stupids things like that?
    Last edited by rolls; 12-13-2016 at 06:16 AM.

  12. #12
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    I'm fairly certain I'm not getting a misfire, it's a 2008 G6E Turbo and the mods are a F6 intercooler, Plazmaman piping and throttle elbow, plazmaman turbo side intake and battery relocation, genuine ID1000 injectors and that's it (I do have a highflow cat, ported rear housing, walbro 460 pump and 12psi actuator ready to go). The car was standard when I got it and there was no evidence of a tune when I pulled the stock tune out of it.

    My fuel base and fuel base cold are all dead standard and I have not touched them yet and there are no vac leaks.

    I have posted 2 tunes and 2 logs, the first is using the settings from the Injector Dynamics spreadsheet and a log from it and the second is when I've made one adjustment to the slope (also took some timing out, commanded a little more boost and changed trans trunk values for boost on launch) and a log for it.

    I'm sure there will be a few things to pick on but as I said I'm still learning it all!
    Attached Files Attached Files

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by nfs View Post
    I'm fairly certain I'm not getting a misfire, it's a 2008 G6E Turbo and the mods are a F6 intercooler, Plazmaman piping and throttle elbow, plazmaman turbo side intake and battery relocation, genuine ID1000 injectors and that's it (I do have a highflow cat, ported rear housing, walbro 460 pump and 12psi actuator ready to go). The car was standard when I got it and there was no evidence of a tune when I pulled the stock tune out of it.

    My fuel base and fuel base cold are all dead standard and I have not touched them yet and there are no vac leaks.

    Knock sensor is very active!

    I have posted 2 tunes and 2 logs, the first is using the settings from the Injector Dynamics spreadsheet and a log from it and the second is when I've made one adjustment to the slope (also took some timing out, commanded a little more boost and changed trans trunk values for boost on launch) and a log for it.

    I'm sure there will be a few things to pick on but as I said I'm still learning it all!
    Knock sensor is very active?
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  14. #14
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    Yeah I have taken some timing out since those logs, the spark source logging is really useful for a beginner like me.

    Over the last two mornings I've tested the cold start which has been great since lowering the high slope value.

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    looks like you have solved your cold start problem.
    I have had the same knock trace on two vehicles and was unable to get rid of the reported knock by reducing timing and or desensitizing knock sensors or moving fuel (don't believe it was actual knock) it will be interesting to see how you go.
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  16. #16
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    Cold start is all good, but it still seems like the trims are way off, i'll keep working at it and try get them to a lower % any guidance is welcome! I will post up if I can sort out the knock problem too.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by nfs View Post
    Yeah I have taken some timing out since those logs, the spark source logging is really useful for a beginner like me.

    Over the last two mornings I've tested the cold start which has been great since lowering the high slope value.
    You lowered the high slope value in your injector scalings and its fixed your cold start? Did I read that right?

  18. #18
    Hey nfs, I took a look at your logs and it looks like Torque Control is taking over and severely hammering your timing. The timing bouncing up and down is causing some of the knock events when your in open loop under acelleration. I haven't delved into this too much but I think you need to look into the torque control to understand whats going on here. I would also suggest reducing the number of channels you monitor at once so you get better granularity in your results.

  19. #19
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    Thanks for the feedback Molch appreciate it. I had a look at some other logs and noticed when the spark source is Torque Control the Torque source is TipIn or oscillation, will do some more research and see if I can get to the bottom of it.

  20. #20
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    Have you got tip in disabled? On my phone so can't check your tune.