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Thread: Flex fuel

  1. #181
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    i set the switch to one, i am currently testing on my 2013 mustang. I asked SCT for definition but have not received anything back..

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by mstang_man View Post
    i set the switch to one, i am currently testing on my 2013 mustang. I asked SCT for definition but have not received anything back..
    I need your help
    I live in France and I am a beginner
    I own a mustang 5.0l coyote 421cv of 2017
    I started to study the flex fuel modification of my vehicle
    can one, who owns the same vehicle as me, could list all the tables to modify (or the list of ECM) to modify like the F150?
    I already started by copying the tune ENGINE .... FUEL ... FLEXFUEL ... general (enable) ... ethanol% vs AFR etc ...

    but what else does it need to copy from the F150 flexfuel mapp?

    I apologize for my english

    thank you very much for yours answers

  3. #183
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    Tune template

    Quote Originally Posted by cabadave View Post
    I need your help
    I live in France and I am a beginner
    I own a mustang 5.0l coyote 421cv of 2017
    I started to study the flex fuel modification of my vehicle
    can one, who owns the same vehicle as me, could list all the tables to modify (or the list of ECM) to modify like the F150?
    I already started by copying the tune ENGINE .... FUEL ... FLEXFUEL ... general (enable) ... ethanol% vs AFR etc ...

    but what else does it need to copy from the F150 flexfuel mapp?

    I apologize for my english

    thank you very much for yours answers

    I went through a 2018 F150 Flex fuel and extracted all the flex fuel tables I could find and created a tune template. I then applied the tune template to my 2018 Mustang base tune. I then ran a compare between my base tune and the tune where I applied flex fuel to recheck differences, mainly scaling on the tables and a sanity check.

    I have not run the car yet so you are welcome to use this template, but can't speak for it yet but will give you a good start. YOU WILL NEED TO CHANGE THE EXTENSION FROM .hpt to .htt as it would not allow me to upload a template file. 2018 F150 Flex Fuel Settings.hpt

  4. #184
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    how do you change the extension to .htt?

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill88stang View Post
    how do you change the extension to .htt?
    in Windows explorer if you right 2019-07-18_9-31-01.jpgclick on the file you should have an option to rename.. so when box opens to rename where it has .hpt change that to .htt

  6. #186
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    thank you!

  7. #187
    Senior Tuner metroplex's Avatar
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    I noticed new tables for Flex Fuel popped up for a "non-Flex" EcoBoost vehicle (that I normally run E30-E47). Can we actually enable FFV operation just like a "Flex Fuel" Ford? Is there any chance we can set it so that it automatically adjusts close to E30-E47 instead of just switching to E85 stoich?

  8. #188
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    I have a great working ff tune in my 14 GT stang. Only see 2 issues and was hoping someone could shed some light on them. First, it only goes to 77% alcohol, is there a max limit somewhere that needs changed? Then at the track, monitoring datalogs, I am commanding .877 lambda but seeing .790, is this because the computer hasn't learned up at high rpm? Or is there a reason it is going to a failsafe set somewhere? Any help is greatly appreciated.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by nxcoupe View Post
    I have a great working ff tune in my 14 GT stang. Only see 2 issues and was hoping someone could shed some light on them. First, it only goes to 77% alcohol, is there a max limit somewhere that needs changed? Then at the track, monitoring datalogs, I am commanding .877 lambda but seeing .790, is this because the computer hasn't learned up at high rpm? Or is there a reason it is going to a failsafe set somewhere? Any help is greatly appreciated.
    With FF tuning, your MAF parameters NEED to be spot on.
    2009.5 PBM G8 GXP M6 W/Roof-Self tune, OBX LTs, Kooks axleback, LSA blower, cam,
    Monster LT1-SC clutch, flex fuel, 12 psi [email protected] 1,800 D.A
    2007 TBSS-Self tune, bolt ons [email protected], 1,900 D.A
    1991 GMC Syclone- Self tune/catback 12.8@104, 4,200ft D.A

  10. #190
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    Id reccomend .850-855 on E

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill88stang View Post
    Id reccomend .850-855 on E
    Car made a lot less power, tried adding timing, but didn't work as well as less timing and leaner a/f

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by STAGEUP View Post
    With FF tuning, your MAF parameters NEED to be spot on.
    Good call. I will have to look at that on the dyno again. I'll use the E85 tune and go back over the maf, then copy that maf function over to the ff tune. I'll report back.

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimTA View Post
    I went through a 2018 F150 Flex fuel and extracted all the flex fuel tables I could find and created a tune template. I then applied the tune template to my 2018 Mustang base tune. I then ran a compare between my base tune and the tune where I applied flex fuel to recheck differences, mainly scaling on the tables and a sanity check.

    I have not run the car yet so you are welcome to use this template, but can't speak for it yet but will give you a good start. YOU WILL NEED TO CHANGE THE EXTENSION FROM .hpt to .htt as it would not allow me to upload a template file. 2018 F150 Flex Fuel Settings.hpt
    Do you have the strategy of the 2018 f150 with flex fuel? Or the original file?

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by rolls View Post
    Do you have the strategy of the 2018 f150 with flex fuel? Or the original file?
    The one I used came out of the tune repository I think.. but here it is..2018 F150 Flex Fuel.hpt

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimTA View Post
    The one I used came out of the tune repository I think.. but here it is..2018 F150 Flex Fuel.hpt
    Thanks. I'm going to build a list of all strategies with flex fuel enabled from the factory. I'm also going to write a macro that copies all the tables to their FFV equivalent if the equivalent is all 1.0s or not initialised. There are about 150 tables with FFV equivalents, lots that are not mapped however they may not be that necessary.

  16. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by rolls View Post
    Thanks. I'm going to build a list of all strategies with flex fuel enabled from the factory. I'm also going to write a macro that copies all the tables to their FFV equivalent if the equivalent is all 1.0s or not initialised. There are about 150 tables with FFV equivalents, lots that are not mapped however they may not be that necessary.
    That sounds like a ton of work, but thanks for making it easy on the rest of us .. by the way I did load the template i created to my car and it ran fine. I have not had the opportunity (maybe guts) yet to fill 'er up with e85...

  17. #197
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    Hi all, I'm new to the forum and HPT tuners software as well. My reason for joining is to learn about ff tuning options available in HPT, specifically for a 2017 Mustang with a G5 3.0 Whipple. I suspect that given the slow shift to summer blend fuels due to the Pandemic many others may be in the same situation and also interested in this specific inquiry noted directly below.

    My end goal is to allow this vehicle, which is not a daily driver and was previously dyno tuned to use ONLY E85+ fuel to safely run <E85 fuel (for times when E85 is not readily available). The car is a manual trans making around 750rwhp with all supporting mods.

    I did actually take the time to read through this entire thread to get up to speed, but I still have a few questions.

    First off, I'll recap what I learned from this thread:

    1. Ford Coyote engine's are controlled by a PCM/ECU called Copperhead
    2. Ford vehicles that are FF use the O2 sensors to determine Ethanol content unlike GM's which use an Ethanol sensor
    3. In a Flex Fuel tune, the tune is refined for a standard ethanol content fuel (i.e. E10/10%) and the Alcohol settings in the tune will adjust this to accommodate higher Ethanol content fuels (i.e. E85/85%)
    4. To enable a FF tune on a vehicle that did not come as FF from the factory, the first step is to enable the FF switch parameter in HPT
    5. Once the FF parameter is enabled, the Alcohol specific tables will be active/enabled
    6. Use the respective table values from a factory FF vehicle file to populate the Alcohol tables (i.e. F150, Eric posted a couple of files in this thread)
    6. Make adjustments to the factory Alcohol tables values for your vehicle's specific setup

    Before I ask my questions, recalling that as stated above, the vehicle in question will be dyno tuned specifically for E85/85%+ using HPT software.

    Questions:
    1.To allow for running lower E content fuels safely in this vehicle, will the following method work?:
    a. First, copy the values from the non-Alcohol tables (which are actually the E85 specific values)
    b. enable the FF parameter switch in HPT
    c. add the values from step 1a to the newly activated Alcohol tables

    If my understanding is correct, once the above steps are taken, as long as the car has E85+, it will run just as it did before the FF was enabled. The only difference is that the values will now be pulled from the Alcohol tables, rather than the non-Alcohol tables. Is this accurate?

    2. If #1 is accurate, is there a formula or calculation that can be used to derive the non-Alcohol table data values from the Alcohol table values?

    I apologize for the long post and greatly appreciate all who take the time to read and provide feedback.
    Last edited by jony51999; 06-06-2020 at 09:23 AM.

  18. #198
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    "1. Ford Coyote engine's are controlled by a PCM/ECU called Copperhead"
    Thats only the early PCMs. The later ones are one of two different tricore processors.

    "5. Once the FF parameter is enabled, the Alcohol specific tables will be active/enabled"
    Not completely true, a lot of them are never accessed unless the strategy was originally compiled with flex fuel enabled. So you can fill half the tables with 0s and nothing will happen. Easy to test which ones are active by doing this.