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Thread: Flex fuel

  1. #21
    Advanced Tuner AKDMB's Avatar
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    Thanks for the help! Hope I didn't get the thread too off topic.

    Here's a snippet from an article in Hot Rod Magazine on Wideband readings with different fuels

    "Caution! What most A/F ratio devices actually measure is really the amount of residual oxygen (for lean mixtures) or unburned hydrocarbons (for rich mixtures) contained in the exhaust gas. Reflecting this, many consumer-level wideband sensors read out in Lambda (λ) values instead of the A/F ratio. Regardless of the fuel or fuel blend, the λ value at the correct stoichiometric A/F ratio for any fuel or fuel blend is always equal to 1.00—therefore with rich mixtures λ is less than 1.00; for lean mixtures λ is greater than 1.00."

    Read more: http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/...#ixzz3lfRacaOR
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    Last edited by AKDMB; 09-13-2015 at 08:18 PM.

  2. #22
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    Well, the thread is called flex fuel, so I'd say it stayed on topic. Like I said though, that is how it works on other cars I have experience with... it looks like Ford uses a similar approach, but I don't know for sure.

    To pull the thread back a little closer to the original question, can someone tell me why tuners don't just use the flex fuel F-150 tune in their mustangs, then put the more "performance oriented" tables from the mustang into the F-150 file? That seems a much simpler solution than trying to add all the flex fuel parameters to the mustang file.

  3. #23
    Advanced Tuner Witt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witt View Post
    There are some things that aren't populated in the stock tune that need to be taken care of first. For now you have to use SCT to edit those tables and HPT to turn on the switch. I have an underlay tune I'm using with the tables populated but I'm still waiting for Eric to add the switch to my strategy.
    Little bump here...

    Thanks to Eric and Bill for getting this taken care of for me. They got the switch needed to turn this on defined in FSFD2 last week. This helps tremendously and I can't wait to test this out and report back. From what I've read from others elsewhere, as long as your ethanol tables are setup decently, it should work great. Really nice to be able to use the product to add features to a stock PCM.

  4. #24
    Tuner in Training RSKtakR's Avatar
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    So is the flex fuel switch available in a revision or something now? Last I understood, Eric hadn't found the "switch" but knew it existed? I am VERY green to doing my own tuning and HP tuners so I will apologize up front for my newb and possibly ignorant questions if they sound stupid. I had posted this same type of thread a couple months ago, but there was no updates with the switch but only that it existed. Another question is, when you change this switch to flex fuel, is everything needed in the PCM for the car to run and make changes because of the fuel change already there or will I need to go in and manually make the changes?

    I guess What I am asking is say I drain my gasoline, go into HPT, find the switch and switch it to flex fuel, put E85 in the tank, will I need to make changes to my current tune, or will the PCM change everything in that current tune for the E85 or will need to go in and make the changes?
    Last edited by RSKtakR; 09-16-2015 at 10:59 AM.
    2015 Mustang GT, PP, HP Tuners VCM, K&N drop in, AIRAID CAI intake tube, Steeda drop springs, trans mount, shifter bracket, sub frame bushing kit, Diff bushing kit, sub frame alignment pins, American Muscle 19x10 PP rear wheels, 305/35r19 MT drag radials.

  5. #25
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    Does the switch just extend the range of error in the fuel trims?
    2014 Mustang GT
    Twin GTX3582R's
    Boss Manny
    Built, sleeved block
    Boss exh cams
    PAC springs
    SW 3" exhaust
    Return Fuel Sys
    ID1300
    FSFR0EA

  6. #26
    Advanced Tuner Witt's Avatar
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    It enables the alcohol tables that already exist in the stock tune. A handful aren't populated like afr vs alcohol content and alcohol spark adder but if you have access to other tools this switch allows those tables to work.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witt View Post
    It enables the alcohol tables that already exist in the stock tune. A handful aren't populated like afr vs alcohol content and alcohol spark adder but if you have access to other tools this switch allows those tables to work.
    Will these tables exist some day in HPTuners? I know better than to ask when. I'd just be happy if.

  8. #28
    Advanced Tuner Witt's Avatar
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    Eric said they will be added.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witt View Post
    It enables the alcohol tables that already exist in the stock tune. A handful aren't populated like afr vs alcohol content and alcohol spark adder but if you have access to other tools this switch allows those tables to work.
    Ahhh....I can enable it with brand X and then read the tune and it will be enabled?
    2014 Mustang GT
    Twin GTX3582R's
    Boss Manny
    Built, sleeved block
    Boss exh cams
    PAC springs
    SW 3" exhaust
    Return Fuel Sys
    ID1300
    FSFR0EA

  10. #30
    Advanced Tuner Witt's Avatar
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    I edited the alcohol tables the way I wanted them, flashed the car, then pulled the tune with HPTuners and finished the rest from there.

  11. #31
    Tuner in Training RSKtakR's Avatar
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    So you have to use a X4 to enable it and then HPT to modify the parameters?
    2015 Mustang GT, PP, HP Tuners VCM, K&N drop in, AIRAID CAI intake tube, Steeda drop springs, trans mount, shifter bracket, sub frame bushing kit, Diff bushing kit, sub frame alignment pins, American Muscle 19x10 PP rear wheels, 305/35r19 MT drag radials.

  12. #32
    I'm assuming they have sct prp and edited the alcohol tables in there then flashed it and did a read out with hpt and then continued his tune.

  13. #33
    Tuner in Training RSKtakR's Avatar
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    And here I thought I bought this more expensive than SCT CRAP so that I could get away from SCT and never have to mess with again, now I find this out..
    2015 Mustang GT, PP, HP Tuners VCM, K&N drop in, AIRAID CAI intake tube, Steeda drop springs, trans mount, shifter bracket, sub frame bushing kit, Diff bushing kit, sub frame alignment pins, American Muscle 19x10 PP rear wheels, 305/35r19 MT drag radials.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by RSKtakR View Post
    And here I thought I bought this more expensive than SCT CRAP so that I could get away from SCT and never have to mess with again, now I find this out..
    Or you could just use a e85 tune when running e85 and then a 93 tune when not. The flex fuel thing is cool but it takes like 2 minutes to flash a tune lol.

  15. #35
    Tuner in Training RSKtakR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redline5.0 View Post
    Or you could just use a e85 tune when running e85 and then a 93 tune when not. The flex fuel thing is cool but it takes like 2 minutes to flash a tune lol.

    Right and I would but those tunes are $100+ each and I bought this software so that I wouldn't have to pay tuners anymore, I could just start doing it on my own.
    2015 Mustang GT, PP, HP Tuners VCM, K&N drop in, AIRAID CAI intake tube, Steeda drop springs, trans mount, shifter bracket, sub frame bushing kit, Diff bushing kit, sub frame alignment pins, American Muscle 19x10 PP rear wheels, 305/35r19 MT drag radials.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by RSKtakR View Post
    Right and I would but those tunes are $100+ each and I bought this software so that I wouldn't have to pay tuners anymore, I could just start doing it on my own.
    You can still make a e85 tune without the flex fuel setting. Guess I'm confused what your trying to do here.

  17. #37
    Tuner in Training RSKtakR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redline5.0 View Post
    You can still make a e85 tune without the flex fuel setting. Guess I'm confused what your trying to do here.
    I don't know how to tune or play around with HP tuners yet. But when I get to that point I was wanting to be able to go into the tune, and be able to easily switch everything over to run the corn without relying on a tuner or having to pay them. As of right now I'm STOOPID with the program so I leave it alone to avoid an expensive mistake lol. But next spring I will be ready to run the corn and hopefully be ready to start playing with the program. I just thought if this "switch" existed and worked well by just selecting it then I wouldn't have to mess around with the tune much.
    2015 Mustang GT, PP, HP Tuners VCM, K&N drop in, AIRAID CAI intake tube, Steeda drop springs, trans mount, shifter bracket, sub frame bushing kit, Diff bushing kit, sub frame alignment pins, American Muscle 19x10 PP rear wheels, 305/35r19 MT drag radials.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by RSKtakR View Post
    I don't know how to tune or play around with HP tuners yet. But when I get to that point I was wanting to be able to go into the tune, and be able to easily switch everything over to run the corn without relying on a tuner or having to pay them. As of right now I'm STOOPID with the program so I leave it alone to avoid an expensive mistake lol. But next spring I will be ready to run the corn and hopefully be ready to start playing with the program. I just thought if this "switch" existed and worked well by just selecting it then I wouldn't have to mess around with the tune much.
    The switch they are talking about will give you the ability to put E10, E85 or any mixture of the 2, in you car without having to change the tune. The switch will eventually be added to every strategy, but until then, you can write a tune for E85 for you car today. It's not hard with the copperhead. In fact, you really only need to change the stoich to have a workable tune. I'm not sure what injectors come in the 15, but it is recommended to have at least 47lb, before running corn.
    And from what I have read, using this switch will be more involved than just making a tune for E85.
    Last edited by txcharlie; 09-17-2015 at 01:26 PM.
    2014 Mustang GT
    Twin GTX3582R's
    Boss Manny
    Built, sleeved block
    Boss exh cams
    PAC springs
    SW 3" exhaust
    Return Fuel Sys
    ID1300
    FSFR0EA

  19. #39
    Advanced Tuner AKDMB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RSKtakR View Post
    And here I thought I bought this more expensive than SCT CRAP so that I could get away from SCT and never have to mess with again, now I find this out..
    Not to get into a SCT vs HPT debate, but SCT PRP is $350 and a new X4 is $400. Also, you need a device for every vehicle you flash with SCT, so say you wanna flash another vehicle, you could write the tune with the same PRP software you already had, but you would need another SCT device to actually flash the tune(that's my understanding of it at least). HPT starts at $500 comes with the software and hardware, plus, the credits it comes with allows you to tune 4 vehicles for free, with the same device.

    Quote Originally Posted by RSKtakR View Post
    Right and I would but those tunes are $100+ each and I bought this software so that I wouldn't have to pay tuners anymore, I could just start doing it on my own.
    Not entirely sure what you meant, but it's $100 dollars(2 credits, software comes with 8 credits already) to license most vehicles, you can write and flash as many tunes as you want to a licensed vehicle, it isn't charged per flash.

    HPT is working to get parameters out there and you will just have to bear with them. Hopefully this feature will be out for your strategy when the time comes for you to start tuning.

    I don't have the luxury of Corn Juice in my area, but I think this is going to be a really cool feature!
    Last edited by AKDMB; 09-17-2015 at 02:36 PM.

  20. #40
    Advanced Tuner Witt's Avatar
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    Just to clarify, you cannot enable flex fuel with SCT. This is an HPTuners only defined parameter. A few of us are simply editing the alcohol tables that are enabled with the switch defined in HPTuners.

    I've posted in the SCT forum years ago about trying to get this switch defined and like every other thread and phone call directed to SCT and their support team, it went completely ignored by them. Huge thanks to Eric, Bill, and the team for actually interacting with their customers and adding functionality to the stock PCM.