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Thread: Tuning Stand Alone 6L80E / 6L90E

  1. #41
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    I cant see the stationary fast adapt/learning working in a non-factory ecu condition myself. there's probably a bunch of stuff the pcs controller does that we don't see.

    It's surprising that someone like Holley hasn't added in 6l80/90 auto support. Like come on, they have been out for over 10 years already and yet they sell hardware to run shitty 4l60's.

    Anyway, I've just finished installing/wiring up the second car which is running an LS1 ecu (VX SS Commodore), car was originally auto. Haven't fire it up yet as still need to do trans cooler lines, but have tested Neutral safety is working.

    Wiring wise, i removed the original pcs tps wires then repined one of the digital inputs to the tps signal

    move another digital input wire to pwm9, this one goes direct to pin 56 on the red connector, I've using efilive custom os5 & set it N20 mode so when it grounds it can remove timing on shifts

    joined PN safety wires A & C from C2 with G from C1 to the PWM7 output from PCS for Park/Neutral.
    trans_switch_8604b5d9f025fa1752e6379cd12a674c6a817c1f.jpg

    The reason for joining the C2 connectors is so the ECU will still know when it's in Park/Neutral. See below from efi forum.
    GM used two methods of receiving a park/neutral signal to the PCM
    Going back to the 80s with TPI systems, there was a single (ORANGE/BLACK) wire that was grounded to indicate to the ECM that the vehicle was in P/N. This method was carried through 2002 for the Camaro/Firebird only. The 99-02 LS1 PCM receives a ground on pin 34 of the LS1 BLUE connector to indicate P/N.

    The mid 90s introduced the gear selector switch on the side of the transmission. VERY convenient for not only P/N, but also backup lamps and neutral safety. For LS PCMs, this means a combination of 4 wires to the PCM to indicate the selected gear (but not necessarly the actual gear...that would come from the fluid pressure switch through the 4L60E/4L80E connector). If you've loaded a calibration into the PCM from a vehicle that has a gear selector switch, but your transmission does not have provision for the switch (like a 700R4), tie together pins 32 & 34 of the LS1 BLUE connector and connect them to your P/N switch.

    Crank Learn requires a P/N signal. Without it, you can rev the engine to the moon and never complete the learn process.

    Closed Loop may have something to do with the P/N signal for automatic transmission calibrations. Still trying to make sense of this. We recently had a conversion that did not receive a P/N signal and until we connected the P/N signal it would never exit Open Loop. However, as soon as we connected the P/N signal, with no calibration changes, Closed Loop operated as was set in the calibration. I am not suggesting that the vehicle must be in P/N for closed loop, but I am saying from experience that there's something about the P/N signal (upon startup?) that is important to Closed Loop operation.

    Recommendation for Conversions
    If you're running an automatic calibration the LS PCM, install a gear selector switch to the transmission. They're about $50 new and very convenient. In addition to the combination of 4 wires to indicate gear selection, they also have a separate wire that can function has a single ground source to indicate P/N for calibrations expecting only a ground on pin 34 of LS1 BLUE connector.
    Apart from splicing into TPS & Tacho signal, I've cut the wire that went to the ecu (Blue-Pin71) for the power mode button on the ecu and fed that to a digital input so i can use it to change to Calibration B.

    May wire in the brake input & will need to put a relay in for the reverse lights, that I'll feed output voltage to the original Trans PN safety wire from above.

  2. #42
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    So i was right with wiring into pin 32 on blue connector for brake input & im seeing the calibration B option come up when the original PWR button for the old trans is toggled.

    late edit.

    Took the first E40 car home tonight. turned boost down and did a wot 3-4 shift & no errors. I think my 20 degree spark cut was overly aggressive along with my timing duration as she nosed over on the shift.
    Last edited by Tre-Cool; 04-28-2020 at 06:22 AM.

  3. #43
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    You are probably just pulling timing too early, I am pulling timing based on slip %. The 3-4 shift will generate a 22% slip on my Holley when the gear is commanded but wont actually pull timing until the oncoming clutch starts engaging, 21% to 0% I have it pulling timing. I have pulled as much as 60 degrees of timing, got a nice little blue puff out of the hood dump and it transitioned seamlessly. I actually have a video on youtube showing off the 2-3 and 3-4 shift. https://youtu.be/np55w2cAwBg

  4. #44
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    im dealing with a relay and stock ecu's still so my options are rather limited. i ended up dropping the timing duration to around .5 second and halving the timing cut and it shifts pretty mint now.

    out of curiosity what are you pwm outputs set to, i think i may have changed a couple by accident and can't find the original calibration settings.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by fabmec View Post
    My post seems to have disappeared, I'll try again.

    I purchased a tcm2650 from the states Last year to put a 4BD1T & 6L80 (ex 09 VE V8 Commodore) into a 105 series Landcruiser. It's been up and running for about 5 months now. I have TUTD, normal, PatternA and 5th lockout in all modes via shifter to d5.

    I did a bit of stuffing around with inputs & outputs on the 2650 but only had 6 days to get it up & running inc tuning the 6L80.
    I'm sure you have worked out that you have to download the software for the pcs TCM2800 to be able to change anything in the 2650. Most of the settings & adjustments shown once you get in there should not be adjusted or altered as you cant use them to control the A6, and if you do change stuff it probably wont communicate with the A6 or do really weird stuff. The 2650 has less functions, the 2800 software shows everything a 2800 has, so be careful.
    There is a monitor mode in the pcs software but I found it doesnt work, but you can go online with the 2650 and do live changes if "firmware version & serial" is selected in the monitor window. Make sure you save the parameter you are working on before closing it in online mode. You can then use vcmscanner connected to the A6 to see changes you are making in the 2650 with the engine off ie. tps, TQ, pattern A select.

    You must use HPTuners or equiv to do all the calibration stuff in the 6L, shift schedules, pressures, pattern selects, TUTD etc
    I'm running windoze10 and all seems well.

    The TUTD is hardwired. I have a up/down switch on the stick and a cobbled together resistor network. It works fine. I have TUTD in D6 and shift to D5 to cancel.

    The tps signal the 2650 is looking for is analogue 0 - 5v, .6 idle 4.9 wot, which you can change in the 2650. As far as I know you can use a MAP input but no both TPS & MAP. I haven't tried this but you would have to scale the TPS & TQ out tables based on MAP only to suit you application. The 2650 produces a TPS% out & a TQ Nm out to the A6 based solely on Analogue TPS position.

    The 2650 only has 2 analogue input available, there are limitations with other inputs and outputs as well because it wasn't designed to control the tranny directly. The pcs tcm2800 has all the functions & ins & outs shown in the software, but no native built in software to talk to a mechatronic tranny. Check the block diagram of the tcm 2800 vs tcm2600.

    You only need a TPS and RPM signal into the 2650 to make the 6L work. I think it will even work without RPM.

    I do not have GMLAN or can signals to play with to test that side of it out. If you are running a GM ecm with that data on the CAN, could you just connect it to the can for the A6 and read all data with VCM? My understanding from the conversation I had with the vendor in the states is that CAN functions are very limited on the 2650.

    You will definitely have problems if you try and use any of the outputs for anything other than what they already are, except for pwmout 9 as it is the diagnostic light out. pwmout2 is the TQ output table via CAN to A6, TQ out =tps%x10 ( the output pin on the 2650 will still output what ever is in the table as well as - voltage), pwmout3 is the TPS% output table via CAN to A6, pwmout6 I think is a scalar for tps & TQ tables maybe?, pwmout8 I have not played with as it faulted the TQ converter lockup when altered by 1 unit at 1 point.
    The other pwm tables if altered will result in no communication to A6. pmwout 5 & 6 have no functional output via the external pins, pwmout 1 & 7 are the reverse & NSS outputs, make sure they show "pwm vs current gear" if they are not working right. The only spare is pwmout 9 which I have connected to my old Check engine light as a diagnostic indicator.

    All outputs are earth switched and yes reverse & NSS require relays.

    My suggestion is to revert back to the cal that was in the 2650 when you received it. If TPS & rpm are connected properly you should see values change in vcm scanner. when I altered the outputs to other things I only had rpm showing.

    Note A6 modes are changed at different tps% setpoints. 2650 as it comes has 92.9% max sent to A6. There are a couple of wot modes activated by changing this to a higher number. At 92.9 WOT mode in the A6 is never seen, when I went above that it tended to hang in those modes so didn't play with them any more.

    I have a mechanical injection turbo diesel with 630Nm TQ@1600, 145Kw@ 2400, 3000 rpm redline, 570Nm TQ from 1300 to 2300. I obviously have no torque management on the engine, but left it all active in the A6. I have 15000Km on it, so far so good.


    I'm using a switch to select calB via Digitalinput2. This gives me PatternA selection in the 6L, not in the 2650. I had to change pattn1 to pattn2 to get the A6 to see it. When I get some more time I'll play with the other pattern settings as pattn2 seems to toggle the input from the 2650, so two pushes of the button to get back into PatternA. The 2650 sees the button every time,tested with trusty diagnostic output pwm9.
    I'm also using 4WDLo input to correct my speedo in lowrange using digitalinput3. It would also work if you were swapping Tyre sizes regularly to keep the speedo accurate. It has no effect on the transmission.

    I'll see if I can attach a tcm2800 start guide and block diagram.

    No dought more questions than answers.

    Attachment 97784Attachment 97785
    Anyway able to shed some more light into getting the TUTD working? What switch / resisters you used? On the VE/F auto shifter? Thanks!

  6. #46
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    you cant use the stock ve/vf shifter as the resisters are different.

    for these cars im using tapshift mode in D5 or D4 depending on the TCM OS.

    To get those modes I pull the shifter back 1 more from drive position, whic u cant do with the ve/vf shifters. the vt-vz ones you can go 3 more from drive.

  7. #47
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    I currently have a 6L80E with a TCM-2650 and cannot get it out of limp home mode due to a no communication code. I'm using a 2010 Corvette cal. I may have some setting screwed up in the programming software so I'm hoping to learn about this unit to get this trans to shift.

  8. #48
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    Wanted to throw my two cents in for posterity, I have just finished putting a VE 6L80E, running an '09 OS, behind an LS1 using the PCS TCM2650 as the gateway controller. I have also fitted a VF shifter using a Overline GM command controller, this converts the VF TUTD raw output to GMLAN and sends straight to the A6. It works in a fashion, the movement off the shifter to sports mode does not lock in sports auto mode, the mode cycles between normal and sports, but by selecting either Tap Up or Tap Down momentarily the A6 goes nicely into full manual mode and functions as you would expect. However to get it back into normal auto mode I have to go back to neutral, briefly, and then back into drive. The going back into neutral is not ideal, but the manual mode works well and I have moved on. If anyone ever finds this the Overline is also sold by CAE Performance as a TAPSHIFT 6L80 & 90.

  9. #49
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    Hi guys,

    Iam currently in the process of putting the 6L90 in a GU patrol with a supercharged 6.5.
    It all runs and drives well, but, the trans is in limp mode, and I can't get the laptop to communicate with the TCM-2650.
    My area of expertise is mechanical, and it all works.
    I have had the sensors hooked up and power and ground connected (the LED is on) and have the CAN controlled neutral start switch and reverse lamp switch all connected ( all PCS gear)
    I have been in contact with Jim at Zero Gravity, and he has sent config files etc, but it's all useless as there is no communication with the TCM-2650

    However, the engine will start in any gear and the reverse lamps don't work.

    The auto elec is not able to diagnose the CAN issue, clearly he is out of his depth.
    I find this annoying as by all accounts this should all be connecting, but I can't get anyone to look at it this side of Xmas 2021.

    My question is, are there any auto electricians in the South eastern suburbs area of Melbourne that can help me out?

  10. #50
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    Hi Poindexter
    I also had issues with 3rd gear limp mode, I was getting a P2534 code. What worked for me was to swap the PCS TCM-2650, "Yellow Switched +12V Battery Wire" from an ignition feed that was only "hot in run and start" to an accessory feed which is "hot in acc/run and start". The reason for this, I believe, is that pin 9 in the C-1 Transmission connector should be switched from an accessory circuit, the reason for this is that it is the "wake up" circuit for the T43 A6 transmission controller, see the attached Silverado schematic, I might be way off but it worked so that was enough for me. I did not however have any issues getting the PCS software to communicate and program. As I was just replacing a 4L65E in a Cross8 Crewman, I just connected the 2650 wiring harness neutral wire to the crewman one and it all worked. I could not get the reverse wire to work, I needed a simple 12 volt high or low output, but the reverse output from the 2650 is a PWM and I could not get it to work.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  11. #51
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    Hi amello 7580, the two attached documents are from a VE 2006-2009 service manual, I assume the trans needs to be at least above 40 degrees to learn.

  12. #52
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    Just a thought. On many vehicles, the accessory power is disconnected during cranking. So if there is a way to get power to that wake-up wire before the key gets to the run position and not lose power during cranking...seems good.

  13. #53
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    Hello all from Papalote, TX
    I know this is an old thread but I am glad to find it, I am trying to install a 6L80 behind a 6.2L GM diesel in a Humvee, I think I have it pretty much under control but for the RPM sensor, my engine has a speed sensor attached to the oil pump shaft (where a distributor would be on a gasser) it is evidently simply a reed switch that opens and closes twice per revolution which would make it once per crankshaft revolution, it looks like it should be simply connected between speed input 3 on the TPS-2600 (that has a pull up resistor) and ground, at this time that is the plan anyway.
    Thanks for any input as I try to get this working!!

  14. #54
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    Hi from sunny Australia....

    Actually, I'm doing a 6.5 with a 6L90 trans, and I'm using the 2 wire CPS near the crank as the rpm sensor.
    And it just occurred to me, whether is the correct sensor to use with a TCM-2650? or should I be looking at something else?
    It sends a signal just after startup to 700rpm, then goes to zero and stays there, this to me indicated a setting thing again, Has anyone come across this and have a solution?
    I'm running a 3bar GM MAP sensor, and seeing voltage, but the signal is erratic from 0 to 128kPa at idle. which leads me to believe the sensor requires the correct settings in the software. I've had a play with the settings but no joy at the moment.
    Has anyone out there got info on the setting up of the 3 Bar GM sensor and 2 wire CPS on the 6.2/6.5 engines?

  15. #55
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    Hello from the UK!

    As you will see, I?m an absolute newbie?

    I am carrying out the exact same conversion as Tre-Cool, even down to my LS1 auto VX SS having the 3.46 diff from a manual. I was lucky enough to swap my 4L60e for a 6L80e, out of a UK VXR8.

    Here are all the transmission details;
    7CRA
    OS is 24239353
    Trans: 92201909
    Diagnostics: 92201910
    System: 92201911

    I bought the TCM-2650 from Jim at ZGP, along with the OBD gear indicator. A good friend of mine, who has HPT and a ramp, did most of the mechanical and electrical side of things, mainly because he has the skills and the ramp! He's now in Australia (in Perth) on family business, so I've bought his HP tuners MPVI, but am very much a newbie....

    I've had the LS1 rebuilt, following oil starvation on a trackday. When we first started it up, we had some whirring, cyclical sounds from the transmission, but we were also trying to sort out the idle and fuelling, as I've got FAST 36lb injectors, a high lift 220 224 cam and RHS 205 heads.

    We used the PCS software to set-up the TPS and then tweaked the settings to get the RPM working. PRN was working on the software and on the display, but when selecting D, the display said 3 and that's the gear it would remain in. The fuelling is ok now and the gearbox is quiet, so mechanically at least, it's good. I've double checked the fluid level as per the manual and it's good, just needed about 1/2 litre adding.

    I have the output from the car's ECM relay powering a relay for the PCS and a relay for the PN and another for the reverse lights. All that works fine.

    I've looked at various forum answers for the limp home mode and spent all yesterday stripping back all the wiring to trace connections. Both yellow wires from the 6L80e C1 connector were wired into an ignition/ cranking feed and I see that pin 9 should be an ACC feed. I'm having trouble finding a suitable feed, but tried using the cigarette lighter feed. This 'woke' the trans up but as it loses it's 12v whilst cranking, it's probably why it didn't change things? I can hear the high pitched sound from the transmission coming on with the key in the acc position and then it turns off a short while after the key is turned off completely.

    I also moved the purple/white wire from position 41 to 17 on the TCM 2650, as per your suggestion, to try to get the speedo working. That purple/white wire from the PCS is connected to the red ecm connector, pin 21, blue/white VSS high signal. Should it be connected to pin 20, VSS low signal, as pin 41 on PCS says it's low side drive only? Pin 20, which is tan, is not connected to anything currently. Pin 50 red (purple/white) goes directly to one of the three bulkhead connectors for the speedo itself.

    We've used pin 45 on the TCM 2650 for the TPS and pin 24 for the tacho. I haven't got TCM 2650 pin 21 connected at all.

    I'm having to remember this from memory (never ideal), but we did once have a DTC p2534 code, which I believe my mate cleared and we then managed to get all gears working until we stopped the engine. I found another forum thread about this code and another one about the U0101, so in my naivety/desperation, I tried setting them both to SES disable and no error reported, then selected 'write entire'. I've since read about how that was not the best idea. I've also being doing most of the diagnostics and tcm changes etc whilst my old fashioned battery charger is attached - another bad decision? The battery on its own isn't able to keep above 12.2v for the time it takes to do stuff. With the charger connected, it's still under 13v.

    Also from memory and mainly from looking over my mate's shoulder, I think we had a speed reading on either Hp tuners or on the PCS software, whilst driving down the road. I've got the car on axle stands, all wheels off, but haven't had any speed readings since having it back in my garage.

    Whilst making some changes to the TCM 2650 via the configurable tuning software, I've had instances where the gear indicator shows P every time and I think R, but sometimes it'll show N for everything once you're out of Park. I've also had it where it loses drive, whilst the lever is in D. Once only, I had it showing 1 then immediately 2 when selecting D. It occurred to me that maybe a lot of this behaviour was due to me not disconnecting the connector or battery for 15 seconds plus, as mentioned in the instructions for TPS setting changes.

    The only good news I'm holding on to is that it did work once. My worry is that I may have done something so that I cannot get back to that place. I have got the original auto tune which my mate read from the 6L80e upon first connection. I've written that back to the trans via VCM Editor.

    I'm hoping you don't mind sharing your knowledge and experience with me. Thanks for reading this far!

    Cheers, Michael

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by amello7580 View Post
    Complete Longshot! Anybody in the group have experience with PCS TCM2600/2800? Bought a controller second hand, I can flash and read the calibration file but the controller won't go online. If someone has an up to date firmware I would gladly appreciate it. I just want to drive my truck again. Literally the only thing holding me back....
    I'm having exact same issue. How did you go?

    Cheers

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    Post a HPT log with the trans current gear channel and vehicle speed, tps, rpm at least... shift mode etc etc if you can. will be much easier to help

  18. #58
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    Lumina VX,

    I am currently setting up a TCM-2600 on a 2001 Silverado.. What are you RPM settings within the PCS software? For Trigger Levels and Filter
    Values?, what are you using for Trigger Level Speed 1 - 4? Trigger Level Speed 3 is suppose to be for RPM Signal range, how did you determine this value. When I measure rpm signal with key on engine off, i get 9.42 volts. How do you determine the other value to calculate the range?
    Last edited by gesmith80; 08-11-2023 at 06:52 PM.

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    How did you get the tap shift to work? Does pin 7 on the transmission work with a 3 position switch or did you have to go through the pcs tcm somehow?