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Thread: Slack dog tune

  1. #1
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    Slack dog tune

    This is my slack dog tune on my FG that I have been running the last few months. I can tune further but just couldn't be bothered doing anything of late considering the car does what I want it to do.

    Now I must admit I don't relentlessly hammer the thing and have not had any long WOT runs but I run it up to the detent switch on the accelerator to the rev cut regularly.

    Car has nizpro intercooler/ Twin 3" manta/700cc injectors

    This is all that I have done to the tune

    1. Injectors scaled by me to run good fuel ratios at WOT.

    2. Overboost threshold figure adjusted to prevent cutout.

    Thats it

    It will run 10 psi down low and build up to 15psi up higher in the rev range.

    Runs stock spark maps. I can't hear any knock (yes some will say its there) but I suspect the knock sensors are doing their thing and pulling spark a little.

    Even then you would only adjust one line on the borderline knock table to put the spark in a no knock retart position.

    All of 5min work apart from the scalling.

    Apart from adjusting the borderline knock table to more conservative numbers on the bottom load line, what else needs to be done to secure a slack dog tune.

  2. #2
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  3. #3
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    My point is, a set of ID1000s (we know the data), a good walbro pump, chuck on a Nizpro pressure relief valve set at 15psi, a wide band air/fuel ratio meter installed in front of you, a few changes in the tune.

    Tell me what is going to go wrong.

  4. #4
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    Tony, I am coming around to this view particularly with respect to injectors. I did a full SD recalc on my car and all the fuel trims to be effectively 0 and fuel under load to be commanded lambda. A lot of work but I started to loose power up top due to the fact that the LPG injectors needed an additional 12% fuel which altered the calculated Load. Being something I like doing I wrote a program to recalc all the Load tables in relation to spark and the power mostly came back. To cut a long story short I ended up zeroing out the lambda spark correction and changed the base fuel table with the SD tables back to factory. Really annoying it pulls harder so I must have missed something.

    Bottom line if you fudge your injectors then there is a lot less work elsewhere.

    So I can see where you are coming from, quick and cheap gives surprising results. Just look at the time Jet saved by using F6 injectors.

  5. #5
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    Not only quick and cheap but also easy for an average Joe to get surprising results. Too many guys are discouraged on the tuning side as alot of people make it seem really hard and risky. But if you create a modification recipe with a known injector like ID1000s, most guys would be stoked with the results even tho the tuning recipe was designed to run a bit rich and a bit conservative on the ignition side.

  6. #6
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    I don't see what else needs doing?

    If its not detonating
    if Afr is where you want it
    If Boost is set to what you want

    Why Change anything else?
    Am I missing something? Does everybody tune the speed density on a mild Xr6?

    I adjusted open loop threshold to get to boost fueling sooner and removed torque management

    I also have 1000CC injectors. I needed to adjust the high slope a little from what injector dynamics data said

    My Car seems pretty happy

  7. #7
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    There are a few little things like changing to one O2 sensor, getting rid of the Mil light which is in my case one simple change, some stuff in the torque tables but they are not tuning matters. Just settings that any Joe can do.

    But what we forget is the engine can operate over a very wide range of A/F ratios and it will still be fine. I've seen factory tunes in the 10.x:1 range at WOT in the good old days and they were fine. I have even run N/A engines at 15:1 at WOT as part of my tuning experimentation and it can be done.

    So for those guys who maybe live far away from a tuner and have bolted on the good bits and just want say 15psi, don't waste your time driving the car hundreds of km to get a "tune" cause the reality is with a bit of mentoring and following a recipe you can get a pretty good result yourself. You dont need to touch the speed density tables for a moderate tune.
    Last edited by turbotrana; 05-21-2015 at 09:43 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbotrana View Post
    You are just going to rack your brain trying to understand how it all works. There comes a point in time with modifications where I would just zero out all spark adders and probably just keep a couple of spark subtractors going and make both MBT and BLK equal.
    With aftermarket tuning I never had problems just running one timing map cause I alway knew what fuel I was using and what was going on.
    For the guys that pay everyone else to work on their car and don't know what is going on, there is not much choice but to keep the protections there as much as possible.
    Tony, I have just been through the timing exercise and worked out what I expected the timing to be against what is logged (SCT so I could calculate Load,...). I know this is not going to please a lot of people (JET) but I have now done the above to my timing table and it gives commanded timing versus load. Previously it ALWAYS picked the lower value (at least when on boost).

    When I have more time I might revert back after the drags to see if I can get it to work with petrol and LPG.

    The KISS principal AGAIN. At least going through the exercise gives you an understanding of why it is so.

  9. #9
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    What an interesting thread

  10. #10
    I love DIY tuners

  11. #11
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    I suggest before any tuning is done that you wire up a permanent wide band gauge like an innovate in the car so you can see how fuel ratios react, from idle to wide open throttle. Observe this on a stock tune for a few weeks and you will have some idea where you should be down the track.

    For adjusting the boost side of things, the best thing to do is to rig up an external boost controller and not use the Factory boost controller. Adjusting boost the factory way is a PIA and a dedicated controller simplifies matter.

    Take it step by step. Its does take a while to nut it all out, but for those young guys mechanically inclined and have the confidence, just go for it. Even workshops come on here to learn the basics.

  12. #12
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    I agree. Tuning shouldn't be some secret art that only workshops can do

    I thought the factory boost control was very easy to work with and I'm stupid. Set the desired boost and adjust dc and over under boost and done. Is It not always this easy? I wouldn't want the extra clutter and wiring of aftermarket parts. Being able to log waste gate dc error would make it easier though

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbotrana View Post
    I suggest before any tuning is done that you wire up a permanent wide band gauge like an innovate in the car so you can see how fuel ratios react, from idle to wide open throttle. Observe this on a stock tune for a few weeks and you will have some idea where you should be down the track.

    For adjusting the boost side of things, the best thing to do is to rig up an external boost controller and not use the Factory boost controller. Adjusting boost the factory way is a PIA and a dedicated controller simplifies matter.

    Take it step by step. Its does take a while to nut it all out, but for those young guys mechanically inclined and have the confidence, just go for it. Even workshops come on here to learn the basics.
    G'day!

    Agreed, and I've used this method to tune my cars and some others for years. Install a wideband AFR gauge, boost gauge and data log parameters.

    Tuning is easy once you understand what's going on.

  14. #14
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    http://info.efidynotuning.com/fuel101.htm#ahisl although not totally relevant to our fords some good info in there.

    for example

    Injector High Slope
    The Injector HIGH Slope is the actual flow rate of the injector, typically this would be the same value as the injector is rated for (ex: 30lb injector would have a high slope of 30, a 60lb injector would have a high slope of 60, etc...) Although, its typically common for most injectors to have a high slope slightly less than their rating as well. A 36lb injector will usually have a high slope of 34.2, this is due to the fact that most injectors are rated at 43.5 psi but operate at only 39.15 psi

    Injector Low Slope
    The Injector Low Slope accounts for non-linearities at low pulsewidths, at low pulsewidths an injector acts as a larger injector spraying more fuel, so to compensate you will have a low slope with a value HIGHER than the high slope. Typically the low slope is approximately 15% larger than the high slope. So a 30lb injector would typically have a low slope of (30*1.15=) 34.5, a 60lb injector would have a low slope of (60*1.15=) 69 Now the further apart the low slope is from the high slope the more influence the breakpoint will have, thus IT IS IDEAL AND HIGHLY RECOMMENDED to have the low slope AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE to the high slope, this will insure your fueling is not doing anything odd at the breakpoint. However, the low slope MUST NEVER be less than the high slope but can be equal to.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbotrana View Post
    http://info.efidynotuning.com/fuel101.htm#ahisl although not totally relevant to our fords some good info in there.

    Injector Low Slope
    The Injector Low Slope accounts for non-linearities at low pulsewidths, at low pulsewidths an injector acts as a larger injector spraying more fuel, so to compensate you will have a low slope with a value HIGHER than the high slope. Typically the low slope is approximately 15% larger than the high slope. So a 30lb injector would typically have a low slope of (30*1.15=) 34.5, a 60lb injector would have a low slope of (60*1.15=) 69 Now the further apart the low slope is from the high slope the more influence the breakpoint will have, thus IT IS IDEAL AND HIGHLY RECOMMENDED to have the low slope AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE to the high slope, this will insure your fueling is not doing anything odd at the breakpoint. However, the low slope MUST NEVER be less than the high slope but can be equal to.
    Interesting and again as I8HTOADS pointed out this "MUST NEVER be less than the high slope" is rubbish. Go and check ID1300s.

    Another thing I have found with Ford data is the breakpoint being below the minpw so effectively an injector will be only running on the high slope.

  16. #16
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    I just installed my Bosch 1150cc injectors and scaled the lo/hi slopes according to Injector Dynamics data. From there adjusted the hi slopes to get within 0.2 of the commanded AFR, and adjusted the base open loop fuel table to fine tune further. The engine now runs AFR's from low 12's at 2500rpm to high 11's for the mid and upper rpm. Boost is set at 15psi from 2500-4000rpm and tapers to 12psi (as commanded, in closed loop mode) as I'm still running the stock dump, cat and exhaust for the next couple of weeks. FYI, I'm tuning my own 2014 G6E Turbo. So far I've fitted a KPM Streetfighter intake and Process West stage 2 FMIC and their piping kit. Dump, cat, surge tank, turbo upgrade and retune for E85. BTW, where's the specific gravity for fuel adjustment in HPT?

    The kicker is though I'm still tuning with Sniper dare I say, the HP Tuner software is missing a heap of tables for me to do the level of tuning that I want. It's not through lack of trying with HPT, I've just resigned myself it's a great tool for tuning the ZF. I'd say there are 15-20 tables/scalers and functions I'm adjusting in Sniper that are not in HPT. Some of them I'd consider pertinent for good tuning.

    Back to turbotrana's post, the tuning is as easy or as hard as you want to make it out to be.

  17. #17
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    Examples of tables that are missing?
    04 Velocity MKII M6 & 06 BF F6 555 ZF6

  18. #18
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    part throttle desired boost and wastegate duty cycle multiplier table, throttle filter vs gear, transient overboost function are just a couple, and a whole swag or scalers, tables and functions. Most of the scalers and functions would never require adjustment, but it's interesting to note parameters available in Sniper that are missing in both SCT and HPT. I've discussed this at length with Darryl C.

    I'm not having a go at either product, both are extremely user friendly compared to Sniper. Sniper is more engineering level oriented than user friendly.

    I never did end up seeing a reply to that file I sent you hideous.

    Labelling the tables for the ZF tuning would be a great help
    Last edited by Romulus; 11-08-2015 at 08:20 PM.

  19. #19
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    The author of that article also recommends running min pw at 0 all the time to make sure nothing is being clipped (I assume spark). I just read some of his posts on here briefly. No time to get into it deeply. I'm just noting snippets that I think are worthy of attention.

  20. #20
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    Funny thing is ask people what the slopes they're using for their 1300's are on the recommended batt offset values on an XR6....should be an interesting response Mr Darryl.