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Thread: Gen 4 (2008-2010) Viper Issues/Requests

  1. #41
    Señor Tuner MeentSS02's Avatar
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    What codes are being thrown when it goes into limp mode? Is it a MAF/MAP/TB Position correlation issue?

    Have you tried disabling the Airflow Diagnostics? (under Engine Diag, General tab, top left corner)

    You could also try changing the P0101/P0101B MAF Perf Airflow Delta Limit % (under Engine Diag, Airflow tab, top left box) from 25% to 50%, and bumping the P0106 MAP % from 8% to 16% to see if that helps - no guarantee it will help at all.

    I'm assuming you are running a stock-ish exhaust with narrow band O2 sensors...have you logged the Bank 1 and 2 LTFTs and STFTs to see what they are doing? You could also log the MAF voltages and set up a graph to see what the LTFT+STFT values are...that should tell you percentage-wise how much fuel the PCM is trying to trim to keep the AFR at stoich under part throttle conditions.

    The only decent way I know to get the MAF tables in line is to log wideband O2 sensor data vs. MAF voltage and set up a % difference graph (commanded vs. actual) to see what's really going on. I also know that these cars are extremely sensitive to any type of airflow change, but my experience is pretty limited. I'm still running a relatively stock car (high flow cats are the only mod so far), so I probably won't be of much assistance.
    2008 Viper - now with HPToona - 1/4 Mile Shenanigans Here
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  2. #42
    Tuner UR50SLO's Avatar
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    P061A is the one code that I'm having trouble with... I don't have the 101/101B at all.

    I can get the MAF's a little closer.... One side STFT is 20% adding the other side is at 5-6% adding. I'll work on those.

    The big problem is that Pedal position does not dirrectly affect Throttle actuator positon. I can be at 78% Throttle and the actual blade position seems to be lazy to end up at only 59% by the end of a dyno pull.... and it's 100hp/100ftlbs off where it should be.

    It doesnt go into limp driving normal or beating on it.... It did twice when at mid throttle... Hoping that's the MAFs just not being close enough.

    Also have a P2104 and P2670.... But they don't seem to affect anything?

    So far I'm happy it's not in limp mode and drives nice for the most part... Hope to make a little more progress today.

    THANK YOU SO MUCH for Ideas.... Really appreciate it!

    Scott...

  3. #43
    Tuner UR50SLO's Avatar
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    I can trace .70 Cyl Air Mass to the Desired Throttle % VS Area... It made 450 on the dyno.. which is exactly the desired torque at .70 where we had it set...

    I'm thinking this entire table needs to be set to 1.00 to get the beast to unleash! This ECM really does know what it's doing... Crazy!

    ~Scott

  4. #44
    Señor Tuner MeentSS02's Avatar
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    What you are describing is pretty normal for the throttle bodies...you can try shifting the throttle % vs area table to the left a little. Copy the maximum value from that table and paste it in the 2-3 cells to the left of where the maximum was, and then blend the values before it so it makes a nice smooth line (it helps to look at the table in 2D graph format). Hopefully that makes sense.
    2008 Viper - now with HPToona - 1/4 Mile Shenanigans Here
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  5. #45
    Tuner UR50SLO's Avatar
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    Still hitting limp at mid throttle.... Normal driving is fine beating on it is fine... I can't give it back to the customer with out this being ironed out.

    Hoping my friend from chrysler can help with his factory laptop... It make HPTuners look like a 4th grade program Lol.

  6. #46
    Tuner UR50SLO's Avatar
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    Found one issue... I'm down to the ECM being bad?

    Have crazy static looking O2 readings on bank 1... Bank 2 is totally normal....

    New sensor.. same thing.

    Checked wires from ECM to sensor plug... all good... nothing crossing bettween either.

    Pulled both pins at ECM to and from sensor... same result.... still static... jumping from 0-.4ish MV. Engine off.... Higher if engine on...

    If it's running it must not like the O2 sensor because it turns them off after about 30 seconds and starts adding fuel... to 39%... then tops out.

    If you rev it... it'll re-set and then go back to learning up to 39%...

    Any Ideas I have not tried?

    Thanks!
    I get this figured out it's ready to ship!

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  7. #47
    Señor Tuner MeentSS02's Avatar
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    Did you happen to trace all of the wires all the way back to the PCM? It seems odd that only 1 of the O2 sensors is affected and not both, but stranger things have happened. Is it carrying that extra fuel over into WOT operation as well?

    Swapping the ECM would be a good test, but I'm not sure how hard that would be to source given the limited production numbers.
    2008 Viper - now with HPToona - 1/4 Mile Shenanigans Here
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  8. #48
    Tuner UR50SLO's Avatar
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    Yes I did... All the wires have good connection from the ecu pin to the plug for the O2.... also checked to make sure none got crossed and go to ground or each other.

    In the Chrysler Disk I have here for the engine... It says the O2 signal return should have 2.4V.... The pass side does... the drivers side has .05v

    If we have to order a ECM and get the Aarow ecu and have this VIN put in it... will HPTuners work with the New ECU?????

    Thanks for your help!
    Scott

  9. #49
    Señor Tuner MeentSS02's Avatar
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    You can overwrite the Arrow PCM with HPTuners (at least I'm pretty sure you can), but you'd lose the calibration that Arrow provides in the process. Granted, the Arrow calibration is assuming a stock-ish engine, so it likely won't do the setup you're working on any favors.
    2008 Viper - now with HPToona - 1/4 Mile Shenanigans Here
    11.02 @ 130

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by UR50SLO View Post
    Yes I did... All the wires have good connection from the ecu pin to the plug for the O2.... also checked to make sure none got crossed and go to ground or each other.

    In the Chrysler Disk I have here for the engine... It says the O2 signal return should have 2.4V.... The pass side does... the drivers side has .05v

    If we have to order a ECM and get the Aarow ecu and have this VIN put in it... will HPTuners work with the New ECU?????

    Thanks for your help!
    Scott
    HP Tuners generally locks to a combination of IDs. VIN is only a single part of the combination. Another part is the Serial Number of the PCM. So, my guess is that even though the VIN would match, HP Tuners would require you to re-license the vehicle if another PCM were installed. That's a whole lot of monies for credits in a scenario such as this.

  11. #51
    Señor Tuner MeentSS02's Avatar
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    Bumping this to the top...the things I'd primarily like to see addressed are allowing the torque spark calculations to be enabled while disabling them anywhere else (or any other way of disabling torque management without disabling idle spark control), and being able to desensitize the knock sensors.

    If you need anything tested, it's prime time driving season, and I'm more than willing to help testing things in beta.
    2008 Viper - now with HPToona - 1/4 Mile Shenanigans Here
    11.02 @ 130

  12. #52
    I would like these things added as well.
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  13. #53
    Tuner UR50SLO's Avatar
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    How about going all MAP base and forget the MAFS!!!!!!

    I got ours ironed out... The drivers O2 is skittish but it is accepting it... We got a new ECM but like you said we could not program it so it'll get re-sold.

    ~Scott

  14. #54
    I was tunning a gen5 viper lastnight using 3.2 scanner it wouldn't pull maf voltage, iat and ect retard , total knock retard and many others also you cannot reset fuel trims or do throttle relearn I thought 3.2 got over all this

  15. #55
    Senior Tuner SultanHassanMasTuning's Avatar
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    ^everytime i want to make an update i pause to not run into this. I have encountered the same issue before with 2.25 some ecu could and some others cant.

    maybe you need to re-poll the OS
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  16. #56
    Señor Tuner MeentSS02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jarrah View Post
    I was tunning a gen5 viper lastnight using 3.2 scanner it wouldn't pull maf voltage, iat and ect retard , total knock retard and many others also you cannot reset fuel trims or do throttle relearn I thought 3.2 got over all this
    Did you send an email to support? I was under the impression that this was fixed for the Gen 5 crowd a while back.

  17. #57
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    Thanks for this amazing and informative post. I got the viper engine running last week and am chasing down the DBW limp mode. The Road Runner isn't driveable yet, but I want it to work as well as possible before the customer picks it up.

    I have to let the car sit in the "On" position for a minute or 2 before I get reliable comms to the PCM.

    Again, thanks for all the work you guys are doing on these Viper engines and tuning!

    I have to use a combination of the VCM Scanner and an Autel scanner to get live data out of the PCM.

  18. #58
    Tuner UR50SLO's Avatar
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    I made a update on the other post too.

    In our situation to stop limp mode in a heavy car with different gearing we had to scale the estimated torque table down 10-15% from memory at the 40-90% throttle range.
    Once you find that table you'll know! It instantly made a difference in my case.
    It's been down in TX for a few years with zero problems.
    I don't get on forums much so sorry about that.
    ~Scott

  19. #59
    We have this code P2670 with our Dodge viper 20113, weinstalled exhaust system and cold air intake then we have this code P2670 , why ?