This jives with the link that I posted with Chris' detailed description of dynamic airflow. (I think.)Originally Posted by cobaltssoverbooster
So there is no way to completely disable VE. It plays either a major role or minor but never nothing.
This jives with the link that I posted with Chris' detailed description of dynamic airflow. (I think.)
So there is no way to completely disable VE. It plays either a major role or minor but never nothing.
Last edited by patooyee; 10-14-2015 at 08:20 PM.
Bingo! looks like the right info finally made its way to ya
2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman
Great. But i can't help but notice that the 105 kpa question seems to keep getting avoided ...
you can change the sensor axis in the virtual ve to expand the range but it wont read past 105kpa is that is the installed sensors maximum range.
at that point the maf becomes extremely dominant and the last value seen becomes the base. the maf takes over any calculations that model outside the seen range.
if the sensor is in fact a larger range then the virtual axis should be calibrated for a range that includes all of the sensors values.
usually if the sensor is exceeded a code would be set so im guessing the sensor has been swapped out already?
2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman
I think his main concern was about what happens to the VE tables once the axis is changed from 1 bar to say 2.5bar? There is a whole bunch more cells in the table at that point than there was in stock form so how does that translate to the original coefficient tables and such? There are other MAP tables in the ECM that are also limited to 105kpa, what happens to those tables with a 2.5 bar MAP?
I'm interested as well.
When you change the map you change the coefficient ranges. Then when you plot in virtual VE the higher ranges don't use the same base coefficients as the lower maxed out range.
If that doesn't make sense I'll have to expand later, out of time for now.
Last edited by cobaltssoverbooster; 10-15-2015 at 01:44 AM.
2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman
For the E67 ECU specifically and >1bar tuning, does this statement make sense?:
To properly deploy a 3 bar MAP sensor with the E67 ECU, you need rescale the MAP sensor in the editor. So 105 kpa reading = 300 kpa actual, or 35 kpa reading = 105 kpa actual...
Talking about calibrating the sensor and extending it's coefficient range out to the new maximum
2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman
The VE coefficient range can't really be extended. There are 29 zones which have to cover the entire MAP range. The zones can be re-mapped, and you would probably want to once you deploy a higher-bar map. I noticed that when I did extend the kpa axis in the VVE tool that the stock coefficient range map stayed the same and the new, higher kpa values were just added to the ends of the final zones which I don't think would be desirable from a tuning or operating stand point. Basically 24 or 25 of the zones looked normal and then the last 3 or 4 zones covered like 4x the range of the other 24 or 25. So one of my next questions was going to be about the logic involved in re-mapping the coefficient zones.
I have more questions to ask about this as well as dynamic airflow but I need to be looking at the editor to properly word them and I haven't had time to get my computer out that has VCM on it. Lots of the current line of questions are included in my planned questioning though.
cobaltssoverbooster, while I appreciate your input and wouldn't want to discourage you from continuing to add, I can't help but notice that you are virtually the only one that replies to Ecotec threads and questions. Is it that the Ecotec sections here are just not very popular, everyone stays in the V8 sections? Or is there truly no one else on this forum that knows what is going on? I also notice that Chris, Bill, even Greg Banish are very active in the V8 sections and almost nonexistent here. It sure would be nice if we got someone else's perspectives in addition to yours. Maybe you are just the only one with the patience to suffer us idiots?
Last edited by patooyee; 10-15-2015 at 10:14 AM.
That's because the ecotecs have had this software before the v8 guys. Lots of posts get reads because they come in here to take information to help themselves learn and then go back to their favorite section and apply that info to their motors.
In my mind hpt is a shop software and because of that shops don't like tuning 4 cylinders because they take twice as much money to get to the same playful level of a v8. Most customers that roll into a shop are v8 people...hence v8 thread activity.
I comment on what I understand only. If I dont understand, you won't hear from me.
And yes if you don't redefine the coefficient map ranges then when you open the vvt with an extended range your ve table won't look any different. Plus it takes a long drive with the zone changed to show a change in the factory VE table.
There likely isn't anyone willing to come help me with this topic because it's not an ecu that most in here are familiar with. If I am bad help it doesn't hurt my feelings, just do yourself the favor of going to a section where people put the information out in a way that can be understood to you.
2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman
Maybe I missed something but weren't we originally talking about MAF sensor ranges and now have moved on to MAP sensors? I didn't pick up the transition.
AFAIR we were referring to MAF in terms of dynamic airflow and turning it on and off during tuning and how long to leave it on during normal running. And MAP in terms of replacing 1-bar sensors with sensors that could read 2+-bar and expanding VE table axis and how the ECM handles kpa values above 105 both before the VE axis has been changed and after.
I don't think you're bad help at all, I just find that we have very different communication styles. Half of all the time I spend reading your posts is spent trying to decipher semantics and inferring meaning. But the more I do it the better I get at it.
How about if you don't assume I'm stupid and maintain your patience with me I'll try not to bug you too bad and continue being very appreciative of whatever help you offer?
Gotcha...I think. Really need to search on how this ECM logic works...trying to wrap my head around this and just have bits and pieces. Feeling very dumb at the moment.
EDIT: Seriously, if anyone has a link they can direct me to in order to get started learning more about how this ECM's logic works so I can try and follow some of this stuff, I'd greatly appreciate it. I've tried searching but either I'm using the wrong search terms (my theory) or there just isn't anything out there readily available (Not so niave to believe this...). So any direction here would be fantastic.
Last edited by Robotech; 10-15-2015 at 04:42 PM.
there have been like 5 good links posted in this thread.
i myself am reading them and learning
I am also interested in how one would go about remapping the map zones. I am willing to test something if anyone wants, liking the advancement.
That was the best detailed description of dynamic airflow I have found. After reading it multiple times it made most of cobaltssoverboost's post make more sense. It the description that made me realize that there is no such thing as turning VE off completely.
In 2.25 if you open the VVE tool there is a check box that you can click to show the map zones. That is where you would edit them. The logic you would use to choose where each individual one started and ended I have no clue.there have been like 5 good links posted in this thread.
i myself am reading them and learning
I am also interested in how one would go about remapping the map zones. I am willing to test something if anyone wants, liking the advancement.
yeah, i just installed 2.25. im assuming the consequence of making a single zone too large would be loss of resolution? opinions?
I saw you post about editing the axis' yourself but did you try the preset ones they give in the drop down menu?
Im not sure if thats just how hptuners made it to be, or if the ecu is actually already a 3 bar system. What do you think?
all it does is extend the last map zones all the way out...same for rpm
another thing to note, after toying with it, it doesnt seem possible to edit the map zones.
Last edited by Slowbalt2000; 10-16-2015 at 12:28 AM.
Now I'm even less sure about what's going on then. No, you can't edit the zones, I just assumed you could. I also just noticed that the ended axis appears to be a VCM variable and not an ECM setting. I say this because once I have edited an axis every file I open now uses that axis even if I have never edited that axis in that tune before. The preset drop downs are all I have played with since they are all I would need but given the above I do not think that those presets are set by GM. Good questions.
When you download a beta you are warned not to ask for support in the forums and to email support instead. I think I will do that later today.
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