So all you did was change all IMRC tables to say "open" and disabled the IMRC switch. When I installed my boss manifold previously, I had issues with the car still throwing a CEL with the IMRCs deleted and disabled, and the car wouldn't add fuel above 4500rpm, it would stay at lambda at WOT. Any ideas?Originally Posted by caniggia
Kris
looking at your tune and what you just said. I think you need to disable op enrichment requirement. This ignores any fuel source but OP mode while in OP mode.
Ok, looks i may have this same problem, but I thought this was related to not enough big injectors per what Eric checked.
I disabled codes, but I get above 4500 or something torque limit that says not enough fuel and he is closing throttle.
At that time I had no fuel pids to check dc of injectors, now I have no car, car will be here in 2-3 weeks, so I can do additional tests.
Eastern and Central Europe American Muscle and Harley-Davidson tuning
www.hd-customs.pl
http://www.facebook.com/hdcustomspl
Could be also my problem with tq limit not enough fuel?
Eastern and Central Europe American Muscle and Harley-Davidson tuning
www.hd-customs.pl
http://www.facebook.com/hdcustomspl
Should this always be disabled or only when the IMRCs are deleted?
Kris
I would have it disabled always only to make sure that op fuel enrichment mode doesn't get overridden for some less important fuel mode at WOT, Also so you get consistent ignition timing. I would say having it enabled would allow the ecu to improve emissions and fuel economy at WOT, but that is not something you want in a car that rapidly changes the air load it sees, such as an automatic transmission or a FI vehicle.
Where are you disabling it?
No laptop in front now
Eastern and Central Europe American Muscle and Harley-Davidson tuning
www.hd-customs.pl
http://www.facebook.com/hdcustomspl
VCT section, left side, top middle area
Ok, my calibration had this disabled stock
Eastern and Central Europe American Muscle and Harley-Davidson tuning
www.hd-customs.pl
http://www.facebook.com/hdcustomspl
I guess my next step is to get another boss manifold, tune the partial throttle VCT without the IMRCs, and see if VCT at WOT wants to be different than it currently is, to see what is causing the 2015 to want those specific valve events.
Kris
kris I forgot to ask you. How were the power increases with the boss and was there any tuning issues with it?
ive got a customer coming in with a 15 and id like to test this vct theory with you. hoping he buys the boss too
Hey man, unfortunately when I had the boss manifold installed, I was still learning a lot about the functionality and operation of the 2015 engine and ECU, combining this with driving the car to and from my day job, did not leave me with much time for testing and tuning. I tried small changes but I had issues with the car breaking up at partial throttle, 100% due to VCT tuning. I added 5 degrees of advance everywhere on the intake and exhaust and this helped but there was much more to be done, I also had issues with fueling at WOT, which we seem to have determined. Partial throttle VCT needs to be optimized with the removal of the IMRCs to allow the car to drive and run smoothly and to also get the most efficiency for hp and fuel economy. I'll get another boss soon and do more testing. If anyone has any information or a decent map, it would be greatly appreciate. If not, only time will show the results when I can.kris I forgot to ask you. How were the power increases with the boss and was there any tuning issues with it?
ive got a customer coming in with a 15 and id like to test this vct theory with you. hoping he buys the boss too
Kris
Thanks for the feedback, its the customers daily driver so unfortunately I wont be able to have it for more than a day to really get into it so it looks like ill have him hold off or get the gt350 for now until we figure out imrc removal
Can someone help me understand the cam bracketing procedure. See attached file showing OP cam timing for a stock 2015 GT.
If I were at a dyno would the procedure be as follows:
1. With intake at stock timing make 5 runs with the exhaust timing shown in each column (-10 deg, -5 deg, stock, +5 deg, +10 deg)
2. Make more exhaust timing sweep runs if peak power was not found at the end of each sweep range
3. Set exhaust timing to the peak power found at each rpm, and make 5 intake timing runs as shown in each column (-10 deg, -5 deg, stock, +5 deg, +10 deg)
4. Make more intake timing sweep runs if peak power was not found at the end of each sweep range
5. Set intake timing to the peak power found at each rpm
6. Fine tune if necessary (2.5 deg cam timing swing)
Question is a 5 deg offset enough, maybe the offset for each test should be 7.5 deg?
Bottom line I would like to know how to perform a good cam timing bracketing test.
I'd recommend starting from scratch each time and starting on the intake cam first. As this is the cam that will mainly define the torque curve. From what I have noticed, retarding the exhaust cam just increases power everywhere once the intake cam is dialed in. If the car is running the stock intake manifold, there isn't much VCT tuning can do as far as making more power. I was only able to find a tiny bit when I bracketed my cam angles. I have done three times now. Once when it was just intake and catback, installed long tubes, and installed a Boss intake manifold. The biggest change in VCT on both the intake and exhaust cam came with the installation and tuning of the Boss manifold.
Back to your question. I would start with the most advance on the intake cam (-20) and work my way to (20) keeping the exhaust cam locked at zero. So your intake cam bracketing positions should look like this: -20, -15, -10, -5, 0, 5, 10, 15, 20 while the exhaust is at 0. I would check torque in 500 rpm increments from 2000-7000 or 8000 depending on your setup. I would even compare MAF flow in 250rpm increments. Once you have determined where peak VE is at each defined rpm breakpoint for your OP VCT intake table lock it in. Then start retarding the exhaust cam: 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, and so forth. Keep going until it stops making power.
Kris
Great, thanks for the input. Have you ever tried another intake cam sweep once you've locked in the exhaust cam?
In other words:
1. Sweep intake cam to max as described
2. Retard exhaust to max as described
3. Sweep intake cam one more time with the max exhaust setting, or maybe go +5 and - 5 to see if you left anything on the table
Wonder if step 3 would be redundant?
Just wondering if that step 3 is worth anything?
I have not swept the intake cam after all tuning done on both cams, but I do take alter the intake cam a little, both advance and retard, where the car made peak power to see if all tuning is still valid. Most of the time it's solid where I left off after exhaust tuning. Then I upload previous vct settings on both cams and do back to back pulls to see difference.
Of course, these cam specs are from my blower car, a 2012 5.0 GT. However, these changes work very well. Also, if you reference Don LaSota's Coyote Cookbook, he recommends significant changes to both cams for a normally aspirated engine.
2012 Mustang GT with S/C
4Runner with S/C
Turbo/NOS Hayabusa - 320RWHP
Trying to gather correct data for when I swap my ported 18+ intake onto my car. I know what I need to do to get it running by disabling the IMRC and the 0-13 mapped points mainly. Sorry to revive an old thread but tons of great info but still a little bit confused with all the mixed info. I know we are now 6 year almost 7 on these gen 2 motors. Did we finally come to a conclusion on the cam installed positions and all?
I watched an awesome video of Alex from HP sweeping the cams in real time on a gen 2 with an 18+ manifold. Then read this entire thread since I found it. Basically what I saw in that video was opposite of a lot of info I found here
If all my research is correct then:
Intake at 0 means the intake valve is opening 20*s before top dead center and -20 is opening 40*s before top dead center.
Then the other way if you go +10 then you're delaying the opening to open 10*s before top dead center then +20 will be opening right on top dead center.
Now exhaust seems to only be able to retard and what up to 50* retard and if research was correct it's closing 9* after top dead center?
Advancing cams in theory is better for low end tq and retarding cams is better for top end.
Tighter LSA is narrow tq and wider is broad low end tq if I recall. This is off memory from awhile ago. I do know Tighter is better for NA applications but wider is more for boost.
But from my searching around seems that once you swap out the factory manifold it's more normal cam timing.
On a 2018 manifold swapped gen 2 locked out with cams locked at -20 all the way to 7200 power fell off hard at 4200 and kept diving
This car was ported 18+ manifold locked only and x pipe and mufflers. Made 400rwhp and 360rwtq this was not finalized either.
IVO
1000rpm=0*
1750rpm=0*
2750rpm=-20*
3250=-20*
4250=-15*
4750=-12*
5750=-2*
6250=2*
6500=2*
6750=2*
7200=4*
EVC
1000rpm=8*
1750rpm=8*
2750rpm=15*
3250=15*
4250=15*
4750=15*
5750=15*
6250=15*
6500=15*
6750=15*
7200=15*
So with a normal setup for intake manifolds are these responding like the conventional way with cams and all? Not all this Atkinson style. I know if I recall that these were designed or well able to create that so there are no needs for EGR. I could be completely wrong though.
How do you extend the RPM on the cams adjustment in the column and where can you adjust the limiter? I have ported 18+ intake manifold going on my car. Looking to extend limiter to 7700-8000 so I don't hit limiter with a 7500+ rpm shift
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