^^^^ I was thinking this as well. I was drawing a blank when I saw the Master Engine Tuner article mention using a dyno instead of torque error. I do not understand the torque based controls very well, but I would prefer to make changes that the car wants, not use a third party measuring device that roughly approximates new values.
If I put a high value in the "wheel tq error max" will it ignore the torque tables?
Factory has it set at 35k, before I assume it begins to close the throttle?
Increasing the tq error max will allow you to tune the car without going into "limp" mode with a MIL. This is to allow you to repopulate your torque/inverse tables to the power level the car is actually producing. This should NOT be left with a higher than stock value once the tune is complete.Originally Posted by Blueprint
It does not ignore the torque tables, it just increases the allowable amount of error.
Every Coyote training available(that I have seen) recommends the use of a load bearing dyno to populate the torque tables.
I think you have the right idea, but you would disable all MPs, but one and tune the single table(ususally OP). Then you can make a spreadsheet that finds the percentage difference from each of the MPs(that are used) vs. the OP table and apply to each MP table. You also do each MP table on the dyno, but that would take many pulls and quite a bit of time and end up with basically the same data.
That should be made into a how to sticky
Sub
Gotcha.
If I log a WOT pull, should I be able to use the wheel torque error and the math you posted earlier to populate the tables correctly. Obviously time consuming.
Hopefully auto populate comes soon. I feel like not only would it be more accurate, but also less time consuming, and easier on "volume" tuners, even though I am sure they have "base" tables prepared.
I have not tried using the torque error to populate torque tables, so I can't offer any input on that method.
Rather than use a dyno, Could we log engine brake tq to get an idea of what the car thinks it's making and then off set that to stay below the engine indicated tq reference? Curious how PID engine Brake torque is calculated.
me too. I log these but don't know what drives them all
DES Brk Tq, ENG Brk Tq (which usually match) and IND Tq ref & Sch Tq (which also match each other but different than the first pair). I don't know why.
Also, I put all my stock torq and inverse torq tables in a spread sheet to see how they matched and there are plenty of cell pairs that are mismatched by up to 30% in the lower load/torque ranges. I'm wondering how much the mismatch matters and this is based on reading that you want to keep the pairs matched as close as possible and then seeing my stock tables have as much as 30% mismatch. What is the downside to them being mismatched? Is it IPC error?
Last edited by GapRider; 06-25-2016 at 08:22 AM.
2019 C7 Stingray M7 - long tube headers, 6.30/6.22 226/238 cam, supporting stuff, DOD and VVT delete.
Stock everything else
I think using airflow readings would be the best way to do it without the use of a dyno. When you see an increase in airflow, you are making more power. Calculate the percentage increase and apply it to your torque table.
I would guess all the torque readings(Brk tq, Eng brake tq, indicated tq, etc) are different calculations of airflow.
Last edited by txcharlie; 06-25-2016 at 10:45 AM.
This thread is due for a bump, has anyone figured out a good way to use the scanner to help populate the tables? Ive been using the tq PIDs to help dial in when i dont have access to a dyno and ive come up with ways to calculate error and just copy and special paste.
What are yall's inputs on this?
Murfie and some others have posted LOTS on this general topic. I can?t remember which threads at the moment.
2019 C7 Stingray M7 - long tube headers, 6.30/6.22 226/238 cam, supporting stuff, DOD and VVT delete.
Stock everything else
I've spoken with murfie and ive learned plenty from him too, now im working on ways to speed things along while still being somewhat accurate. I sent murfie a message earlier in hopes that the table i created to calculate error and create a correction factor is actually useful
Last edited by txtailtorcher; 05-03-2018 at 02:08 AM.
I log ETC throttle error/rpm/engine load, haven't put it on dyno to see how close it is, but car runs great. I had it all messed up before this, went back to stock torque values & tuned from there. Then, use the calculator to calculate inverse.
I have a load bearing dyno here in house, but haven't put the car on it to see how close it is, but will sometime along.
That is what I do too, I created a table using the have/want equation to calculate how far off I am and have it out putting a percent to create a correction factor. Same way you would like for calculating eq error. I'm going to play with it this week on a 2012 5.0 with a 2018 intake, 47lb inj, cat delete.
any update txtailtorcher? I'm in a similar situation i don't have a dyno and do tuning on the street but would like a way to dial in the torque tables
bump
I'm working with this now and am having trouble building a histogram to log ETC error accurately - any of you smart guys have any insight or are there some more detailed threads on this topic?
bump
I'm working with this now and am having trouble building a histogram to log ETC error accurately - any of you smart guys have any insight or are there some more detailed threads on this topic?
Make an exact copy of your torque tables with rpm on the x axis and load on the y axis vs throttle angle error.
Reply With Quote
