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Thread: Piston faliure 6.2 whipple 7psi

  1. #21
    Advanced Tuner Redline MS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Higgs Boson View Post
    Me too.....I am wondering if I can just license an LT4 OS and Write Entire.
    I would see if you can confirm if the FPCM has a different part number between the LT1 and LT4.....the fuel system in the C7Z works like the ZR1 did where it's more in tune with fuel pressure rise as demand is made. I'm gonna stick my neck out and say that control algorithm is missing in the LT1 OS...
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  2. #22
    Advanced Tuner AutoWiz's Avatar
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    I spend plenty of time on the dyno. and built and boosted more than my share. The internet is the absolute last place I turn for valid info and the first place I look to correct others on. seriously. here are some of my build threads I have circulating the www:

    http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/foru...d.php?t=242081
    http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/foru...d.php?t=241858
    http://www.mp3car.com/show-off-your-...tte-droid.html
    http://www.mp3car.com/show-off-your-...ore-boost.html
    http://www.mp3car.com/show-off-your-...me-tuning.html

    that's just a few. I can link up so many more. I get to build them before i tune them. and i build everything. i even make all my a/c hoses and build all my harnesses, bend and weld up all exhaust, i mean i build whole cars from scratch. then i tune them. hptuners is one solution i use. i am also fluent with tunercats, jet performance DST, aemtuner, chrome, and hondata. of which hptuners is definitely the most polished UI.

    oh yeah, and my day job is a licensed Magnuson dealer.
    Last edited by AutoWiz; 09-19-2015 at 12:04 PM.

  3. #23
    Advanced Tuner AutoWiz's Avatar
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    I have NOT tuned gen 5 yet. I feel i should point that out. So I am reading and learning. btw. so i am not challenging what you are saying. just that is sounds so lean.

  4. #24
    Senior Tuner Higgs Boson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redline MS View Post
    I would see if you can confirm if the FPCM has a different part number between the LT1 and LT4.....the fuel system in the C7Z works like the ZR1 did where it's more in tune with fuel pressure rise as demand is made. I'm gonna stick my neck out and say that control algorithm is missing in the LT1 OS...
    The more I think about it, the more I think there probably isnt an issue with the pump as it will deliver 11 or 12 MPa around 97kpa and its only under boost that it falls off. My initial thought was, nothing is delivering more voltage to boost a pump the HPFP and I bet the Z06 FPCM does exactly that.

    So two questions arise.....why don't other people running the Z06 pump have this issue? and if the Z and base do have different FPCMs, can I swap it plug and play style? I don't want to chase the rabbit down the black hole, either.....

    There is something related here, between the Peak Pulse table (RPM vs Ign Voltage) being the only table that disables the HPFP and the lack of applied power under boost..... Is there a PID we can measure for HPFP voltage and compare a Z06 to base? Maybe I have a blown fuse for that....

  5. #25
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    So u guys think its a tune issue the truck was driven for 6 months with long trips never had any issue with it until it failed on me while crusing back home

  6. #26
    Senior Tuner Higgs Boson's Avatar
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    hard to say, try testing the injectors..... what is spark at part throttle? a lot of times failures do occur while cruising even though the damage was done under load at an earlier time, not everything explodes in spectacular fashion.

  7. #27
    Advanced Tuner Road's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redline MS View Post
    I would see if you can confirm if the FPCM has a different part number between the LT1 and LT4.....the fuel system in the C7Z works like the ZR1 did where it's more in tune with fuel pressure rise as demand is made. I'm gonna stick my neck out and say that control algorithm is missing in the LT1 OS...
    The ecm controls the high pressure pump and the fpcm controls the pump in the tanks

  8. #28
    Senior Tuner Ben Charles's Avatar
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    I have NOT tuned gen 5 yet. I feel i should point that out. So I am reading and learning. btw. so i am not challenging what you are saying. just that is sounds so lean.
    Factory C7 Z06 commanded PE is around 11.9-12.3, DI is way more efficient so leaner Fuel values can be used.

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  9. #29
    Advanced Tuner Redline MS's Avatar
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    Higgs,

    Just going by memory but wasn't your primary (low pressure) pump the one that was dropping off in pressure? The base car stays at a fixed (well as close as it can) to 4 BAR of pressure. The LT4 jacks the pressure to 70-75 psi which means its being controlled to do so. Since there is nothing in the current available PIDS that control this I am assuming that its in the FPCM which communicates to the ECM via CAN. Sometimes just swapping them could be a CAN communication issue...I haven't swapped one or looked on the CAN bus to see if the protocol is the same. I believe as I had stated its going to be similar to how the E67 controlled the LS9 fuel system.

    Those logs I sent you showed that defined rpm where it hits the low pressure pump (funny we call that the low pressure pump!).

    Autowiz,

    You shouldn't of looked at the response as a dig but more as good solid information. The fact that you indicated you haven't calibrated a DI motor further suggests that good research would be best before challenging something. Congratulations on your accomplishments but its a big world out there and lots to learn. Myself like a few others on this board we've watch fuel injection evolve from the carburetor to DI. That's a long run and much learned....however none of us are in total control of these OEM controllers so its a lot of looking back at the basics and understanding the current technology. Where are you in South fla?

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  10. #30
    Advanced Tuner AutoWiz's Avatar
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    south end of pompano beach. and I wasn't trying to challenge anybody. just trying to participate and get the "tuner in training" label out from under my name. which I have done. 50 posts. I will sit back and do more reading and less posting here now that I carry the label "tuner" lol. where in south florida is redline motorsports?

  11. #31
    Senior Tuner Higgs Boson's Avatar
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    I am losing high pressure.

    It is almost like the injectors want the fuel, drain the rails, and the HPFP doesn't really do much to keep up, it just goes away as soon as it hits boost/PE. The low pressure side doesn't lose pressure because the HPFP doesn't ask for it.

  12. #32
    Advanced Tuner Redline MS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutoWiz View Post
    south end of pompano beach. and I wasn't trying to challenge anybody. just trying to participate and get the "tuner in training" label out from under my name. which I have done. 50 posts. I will sit back and do more reading and less posting here now that I carry the label "tuner" lol. where in south florida is redline motorsports?
    We are in Pompano Beach....sample and powerline.... give me a call Monday and we could talk more. We occasionally do EFI classes with my friend Greg who own's Calibrated Success . Personally I like people that think and want to learn more and learn it right!

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  13. #33
    just wanted to share with you a customer came in last night for heads cam package it is a Silverado 2014 with 15k km on it, check below the pictures of the pistons the truck has stock tune and no mods of any type.

    IMG-20150919-WA0015.jpg
    IMG-20150919-WA0018.jpg


    if look at the pictures there is a big layer of carbon deposit on the top surface of the piston far away from the injector spray area, another thing is that the intake valve looks like hell with huge deposit of hard carbon layer on it. another inspection shows that the cylinder wall also has some scratches due to this.

    what would be the right solution ?

    1. oil catch
    2. methanol nozzle in the intake to clean this deposit


    the Toyota 86 has 4 cylinders however with a total number of 8 injectors 4 direct ones and 4 port ones in order to resolve this issue......bmw also have on injector in the intake also to make sure the intake valves are clean.


    and the worst looking ones are the DOD ones which leads me to think why all the failures that were reported they were concerning those particular cylinders could the ECU command to shut of the spark but injectors still work?



    I have tuned loads of those trucks and making loads of power with no issues maybe because I have all of them with meth injection in the intake and oil catch, I have done couple of 5.3 stock fuel system only with cam swaps and increase fuel lope and making 700+whp twin turbos.

  14. #34
    higgs,

    I will tell something that happened to me, I was tuning one of my twin turbo trucks, I have a custom PID that will back calculate my SOI table based on the IPW and IGN adv and taking into account injectors data and it has been working so well, however on this particular truck I was tuning I had many issues it felt like it was hitting a wall at 5000 RPM and noticed similar to what you have reported so I ended up checking everything. At the end I tried with just stock MAP sensor and seemed to solve the issue maybe just maybe due to the fact that we do not have the access to pressure ratio table this is causing your car to go into a sort of limp mode.


    IMG-20150708-WA0000.jpg

  15. #35
    Senior Tuner Higgs Boson's Avatar
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    that's one thing I haven't tried, I'll try it today

  16. #36
    higgs,

    did you have a look on the pictures I have posted for the pistons and cylinder do you have any comment ?

  17. #37
    Senior Tuner Higgs Boson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jarrah View Post
    higgs,

    did you have a look on the pictures I have posted for the pistons and cylinder do you have any comment ?
    since you brought up the MAP, i noticed I changed the MAP slope in Engine but not in System....I am going to try that before swapping back to stock.

    regarding the pistons, i am more of a fan of removing the pcv altogether and running a catch can with a breather, like LMR makes because it seems like oil still gets into the intake anyways with traditional cans. if you have the means to run meth or additional injectors above the valve, it will definitely help. personally I would blast the parts clean and eliminate the source entirely.

  18. #38
    Advanced Tuner Road's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lsx454 View Post
    So u guys think its a tune issue the truck was driven for 6 months with long trips never had any issue with it until it failed on me while crusing back home
    Was #8 the only cylinder that failed? I don't see where you posted your tune that you were using when this happened. From the color of the top of your piston looks to me like the air/fuel mixture was good. If it was only #8 then some things to look for:

    Clearance issue (was there ever any overheating)
    Getting coolant into that cylinder (Not likely from the color of the piston)
    Piston oil nozzle
    Possible ring land broke during assembly or under boost

    My thought's are denotation possibly cause it

    Posting your tune would helpful

    Mike

  19. #39
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    I dnt have the tune i had a log before it was 15 degrees of timing only under wot and my afr was 12.5 wot and crusing 14.6

  20. #40
    Advanced Tuner Road's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jarrah View Post
    just wanted to share with you a customer came in last night for heads cam package it is a Silverado 2014 with 15k km on it, check below the pictures of the pistons the truck has stock tune and no mods of any type.

    IMG-20150919-WA0015.jpg
    IMG-20150919-WA0018.jpg


    if look at the pictures there is a big layer of carbon deposit on the top surface of the piston far away from the injector spray area, another thing is that the intake valve looks like hell with huge deposit of hard carbon layer on it. another inspection shows that the cylinder wall also has some scratches due to this.

    what would be the right solution ?

    1. oil catch
    2. methanol nozzle in the intake to clean this deposit


    the Toyota 86 has 4 cylinders however with a total number of 8 injectors 4 direct ones and 4 port ones in order to resolve this issue......bmw also have on injector in the intake also to make sure the intake valves are clean.


    and the worst looking ones are the DOD ones which leads me to think why all the failures that were reported they were concerning those particular cylinders could the ECU command to shut of the spark but injectors still work?



    I have tuned loads of those trucks and making loads of power with no issues maybe because I have all of them with meth injection in the intake and oil catch, I have done couple of 5.3 stock fuel system only with cam swaps and increase fuel lope and making 700+whp twin turbos.
    Fuel is the biggest contributor to carbon build up. Fuel has tar in it and on a heat soaked motor when you shut it off the fuel in the cylinders will vaporize through open intake valves and leave residue all the way to the throttle body.
    Do ya'll experience no starts from the intakes valve sticking open in cold weather? We do in Texas I can only imagine what those Canadian winters would do to gummy valves?