VE Tuning without a PR PID.

[WS6HUMMER]

I'd go back and check your calculations. If you set the histogram right, you should only have to copy=>paste special=>multiply by%.

I cant get the histo to work right so I'm using the dyno's RPM & AFR data to log that & then calculating the error percent and multiplying the related cells. Either way I added to the VE so it should be going rich not lean right?

[ElecTech]

I cant get the histo to work right so I'm using the dyno's RPM & AFR data to log that & then calculating the error percent and multiplying the related cells. Either way I added to the VE so it should be going rich not lean right?

Should. Unless you have a fuel pressure or volume issue. There are also some max VE values that you may look at. What is your fuel pressure or injector PW during a pull?

[WS6HUMMER]

Should. Unless you have a fuel pressure or volume issue. There are also some max VE values that you may look at. What is your fuel pressure or injector PW during a pull?

Can't even log PW yet, you probably can on the newer trucks but this 04 is very limited on supported PID's compared to the 2012 I tuned. You were right about fuel pressure being an issue, base pressure KOEO is ok (60psi) but when you crank it t he pressure rises to 72 psi at idle & this thing has one of those vette pressure reg/filters thats fixed to 58-62psi. Another thing I noticed as we were finishing up tonight, is after I re-enabled closed loop there's a false lean issue on bank 1, the STFT's are +15 and bank 2 is 0. We quit for the day without pulling the plugs but the owner is gonna pull them and let me know what he finds on that side. So many things to sort out on this one. Thanks again for your help ElecTech.

[WS6HUMMER]

Well we did figure out one thing that was wrong with the truck that may have been causing the transient fuel issues. The current owner bought the truck not running & installed the new engine. The plug wires on the truck were all wrong, being a Hemi it has 16 spark plugs, someone had put short LS1 style wires on this thing and had the the coils firing both plugs on the same cylinder when in reality it should have had longer wires that crossover to the oposite bank firing one of those cylinders. Example; the coil on cylinder #1 fires cylinder #1 from the coil boot and the plug wire on that coil crosses the intake and fires one of the plugs on cylinder #6.

[Pector55]

OK Got this Hemi on the dyno and its a little lean, I calculated my afr error percent and multiplied the VE cells and it went leaner after the changes. Is there a correction factor or something skewing my changes? Thanks

I'm about to start tuning my Challenger RT (5.7) Auto.
It has long tube headers, catless mids and a 3" exhaust so it's a little on the lean side. Prior to the headers/mids, the ltft's were 0 and now I see them going up around 5 or so with stfts up in the teens. I can calculate my Pratio based on the average elevation where I scan my car / what I'm reading in kpa in the manifold.

How did you calculate the afr error percent to use to multiply the VE cells? I've been reading the site for quite a while and I feel like I'm getting closer but this is my first Hemi. I've only ever tuned by MAF.

I read that I should disable Neutral Network and begin working on the VE in the two banks but the % error is what I want to be certain of.

This is my scan from this morning -- all part throttle12132015_AM.hpl

[WS6HUMMER]

Yes if yours is a later model Hemi you will need to disable the Neural network to dial in the VE. I finally got the Hemi I had issues with tuned after I found multiple exhaust leaks after the owner assured me there were none. To dial in the VE I logged commanded AFR and actual AFR, calculated the percentage of error, and then multiplied each VE cell by that percentage. Don't forget to do both VE tables the same.

[Keith@HPTuners]

I've added PRatio as a math parameter in tomorrows beta. Please test it.

[WS6HUMMER]

I've added PRatio as a math parameter in tomorrows beta. Please test it.

What about the really early hemi stuff? Ive tuned a 2012 and a 2004, there were a lot more PID's available for the 12, the 04 had very few. I've been doing the baro calculation to get PR but a PID will save time.

[Moparking]

Yes if yours is a later model Hemi you will need to disable the Neural network to dial in the VE. I finally got the Hemi I had issues with tuned after I found multiple exhaust leaks after the owner assured me there were none. To dial in the VE I logged commanded AFR and actual AFR, calculated the percentage of error, and then multiplied each VE cell by that percentage. Don't forget to do both VE tables the same.

Does HP have the Neural Perimeters mapped out? There is a bunch of arrays that you can use to adjust the fuel and still maintain fuel economy without having to redo the VE tables

[ElecTech]

Does HP have the Neural Perimeters mapped out? There is a bunch of arrays that you can use to adjust the fuel and still maintain fuel economy without having to redo the VE tables

Do you not have the software?

[Moparking]

Do you not have the software?

I do but do not use it.

[ElecTech]

I do but do not use it.

It just seems like your more interested in drawing attention to your product and services than trying to help people with using HP Tuners or the platform.

The VE tables are quite easy to calibrate properly with the scanner utilities that HP Tuners provides. It only takes about an hour to get a really nice map without sacrificing fuel economy. Closed loop feedback functions just fine. It is also a more familiar process for most people. In the end, we have to use what's available.

[Mark@HPTuners]

What about the really early hemi stuff? Ive tuned a 2012 and a 2004, there were a lot more PID's available for the 12, the 04 had very few. I've been doing the baro calculation to get PR but a PID will save time.

Anything equipped with NGC4, NGC4A, GPEC2, or GPEC2A already has a PRatio PID. It is called Pressure Ratio and can be found by searching Pressure Ratio in the add a channel search box. Anything NGC3 (04-06) does not have anything yet but you should be able to use the math parameter to obtain Pressure Ratio

[2000_SS]

i'm trying to tune the VE on a 09 Challenger and every time i make a change to the VE tables, the next time i log, i get the same % error. i've done several interations, the car should be extremely rich at this point but it is running the exact same after applying the same increase/decrease in lambda error. it's as if the VE tables aren't affecting fueling. Neural network is disabled and i have closed loop disabled...can someone tell me what i'm missing and why my changes aren't having an effect?

working tune.hpt

[Moparking]

It just seems like your more interested in drawing attention to your product and services than trying to help people with using HP Tuners or the platform.

The VE tables are quite easy to calibrate properly with the scanner utilities that HP Tuners provides. It only takes about an hour to get a really nice map without sacrificing fuel economy. Closed loop feedback functions just fine. It is also a more familiar process for most people. In the end, we have to use what's available.

I was asking if it had it and if it did I was gonna offer some assistance. Otherwise shut if off and tune the VE table.

[Mep_q8]

In a nut shell, PR ratio is the equivalence to MAP. If your reading 180kpa MAP your PR ratio should be at 1.8.

There's no point in re-inventing the wheel.

[WS6HUMMER]

In a nut shell, PR ratio is the equivalence to MAP. If your reading 180kpa MAP your PR ratio should be at 1.8.

There's no point in re-inventing the wheel.

If you have a baro of 100kpa if you're at altitude then that theory doesn't work.

[WS6HUMMER]

Anything equipped with NGC4, NGC4A, GPEC2, or GPEC2A already has a PRatio PID. It is called Pressure Ratio and can be found by searching Pressure Ratio in the add a channel search box. Anything NGC3 (04-06) does not have anything yet but you should be able to use the math parameter to obtain Pressure Ratio

Thanks, & yes that's how I've been doing it on the 04.