3.5 EcoBoost Advice?

[jamesm]

Precisely.. and no wastegate tuning whatsoever. Everything related to boost control is completely stock (aside from the related limiters). It'll raise the level as necessary to meet load requirements for the given conditions.. and it's seems to be quite good at it.

[NickSezz]

WG Dyno mode is left alone on mine. On my F150 it's like the factory tune is developed to potentially make some serious power, then they put limiters in place to control final output. I am using the LSPI tables as my load limit set to a max of 1.85 air load. Other load/torque limiters that get in the way have been bumped to accommodate that target as well. This makes about 18psi on my truck with spikes to 20psi on the shifts and about 8-10 degrees timing on Cali 91 octane.

I use driver demand to get the pedal response and power delivery I want at a given pedal position and rpm. This is only effective when the PCM is not blending to WOT which I tell it to do at 500 counts.

I set my timing low and allow the OAR to add in up to 5 degrees depending on knock sensor activity/fuel quality. For this to work to its full potential, I had to monitor how much timing the computer wanted to pull out at a given load/rpm in that mapped point. I ended up with borderline tables that are lower than stock especially in the mid range where the turbos are spooled up. My goal is to get the OAR as close to -1.00 as possible without actually hitting that. This gives a large safety net if you happen to get a crap tank of fuel without leaving much on the table. I also allow the knock sensors to add/remove timing more than twice as fast as stock.

Took me a little while to wrap my head around the OAR function. In the beginning I had no idea why my timing was so much higher than borderline tables until I fully understood that adder, then I used it to my advantage.

[Eric@HPTuners]

WG Dyno mode is left alone on mine. On my F150 it's like the factory tune is developed to potentially make some serious power, then they put limiters in place to control final output. I am using the LSPI tables as my load limit set to a max of 1.85 air load. Other load/torque limiters that get in the way have been bumped to accommodate that target as well. This makes about 18psi on my truck with spikes to 20psi on the shifts and about 8-10 degrees timing on Cali 91 octane.

I use driver demand to get the pedal response and power delivery I want at a given pedal position and rpm. This is only effective when the PCM is not blending to WOT which I tell it to do at 500 counts.

I set my timing low and allow the OAR to add in up to 5 degrees depending on knock sensor activity/fuel quality. For this to work to its full potential, I had to monitor how much timing the computer wanted to pull out at a given load/rpm in that mapped point. I ended up with borderline tables that are lower than stock especially in the mid range where the turbos are spooled up. My goal is to get the OAR as close to -1.00 as possible without actually hitting that. This gives a large safety net if you happen to get a crap tank of fuel without leaving much on the table. I also allow the knock sensors to add/remove timing more than twice as fast as stock.

Took me a little while to wrap my head around the OAR function. In the beginning I had no idea why my timing was so much higher than borderline tables until I fully understood that adder, then I used it to my advantage.

Excellent work!

[metroplex]

The trucks, especially 15-up seem very different with respect to spark. I let the ECU handle the throttle/WG adjustments, but once I figured out how to switch from Base Spark at WOT to Borderline Knock, my Final Spark Advance is essentially Borderline Knock minus any knock retard. So at WOT I can run up to about 15-17 degrees advance if there's no knock. I kept the stock spark tables and never messed with octane adjustment ratio (stock OAR table is about -5* at WOT conditions).

I read that the more advanced turbo systems can use drive-by-wire throttle systems to help control boost. The older systems with mechanical throttles had to rely on wastegate adjustments and other techniques.
I still have not seen any relationship between driver demand and boost. I could add 50 ft-lb over stock or 150 ft-lb over stock and it'd still want much more boost than stock.

[NickSezz]

The trucks, especially 15-up seem very different with respect to spark. I let the ECU handle the throttle/WG adjustments, but once I figured out how to switch from Base Spark at WOT to Borderline Knock, my Final Spark Advance is essentially Borderline Knock minus any knock retard. So at WOT I can run up to about 15-17 degrees advance if there's no knock. I kept the stock spark tables and never messed with octane adjustment ratio (stock OAR table is about -5* at WOT conditions).

I read that the more advanced turbo systems can use drive-by-wire throttle systems to help control boost. The older systems with mechanical throttles had to rely on wastegate adjustments and other techniques.
I still have not seen any relationship between driver demand and boost. I could add 50 ft-lb over stock or 150 ft-lb over stock and it'd still want much more boost than stock.

The only time I see Base spark being used is before the turbos are spooled and desired load is not yet met. I chalk this up the the computer needing more timing to hit the desired torque since enough boost is not yet available. Once those suckers are spooled it switches over to borderline sometime before desired load it met.

You don't have to touch the OAR tables. I just took some timing out of the borderline tables in areas where KR was present. The stock tune on my truck is a little aggressive in some areas and timing is pulled. This positive KR prevents the OAR from reaching much over -.50 so it's only adding about 2.5? across the board via the OAR adder table. If I pull some timing out and go a little extra in those areas, the computer will then add timing to the point where the OAR will get to -.80 for typical 91 and -.96 for summer grade 91 as seen in during my testing. OAR is basically learned knock sensor activity. I don't feel this is a requirement when tuning these but I would rather have the computer add timing in then have to pull it out. At WOT I am sure I can squeeze more timing in there at higher revs but I don't feel it's worth much.

Just by looking at the stock driver demand you can see what the intent of the calibration is. They wanted great part throttle torque between 2000-3500 rpms and quick turbo spool off idle. On a stock cal much is done to kill power at higher rpms which most of us go ahead and undo. I think it's pretty clever to pressurize the charge pipe with "available" air and use the throttle/bov to control the differential pressure between it and the manifold. At WOT this strategy doesn't shine as much as it does during part throttle conditions. I don't view DD tables as boost control. These tables just provide a map of torque for the engine to follow at part throttle. More boost is a result of the computer asking for it to meet a torque demand but more boost is not always required.

The new HO Ecoboost is equipped with electronic wastegates. Interested in seeing if the strategy to control the HO engine is vastly different or not.

[caniggia]

Im tuning another eb and wanted to go higher boost as usual.
I found one problem, wot it ignores completly dde tables.
I can command 100nm whole table and till I won't get wot it commands what is there, so 100nm.
Once wot, it's like using some not visible table dde for wot.

Always commanded torque equals delivered and can't command him more.
Any ideas? Could be there is some hidden wot table?

If I make him more power with spark, he lower boost, if I lower spark, he adds boost, but always is trying to get torque that I can't see in any table

[tbrtuning]

There's a WOT Torque Max table under torque management. It's called something like that. I haven't messed with them much and am not at the computer to check. Log torque source and everything to see if it indicates anything.

[caniggia]

Torque source is driver demand, no such table, its mustang.

[tbrtuning]

I haven't tuned an Ecoboost Mustang yet but there are tables in torque management that limit the 2016 Focus ST that are not in the Mustang tune. They are called Max Torque 1 and Max Torque 2... Hopefully someone can chime in that those aren't needed in the Mustang. Did you mess with the LSPI tables any to request higher load? Be careful not to go crazy with it though because you have to be careful generating high load at low RPM on them from what I've read.

[caniggia]

Yes, I tried to max lspi values also, always tip requested is delivered and can't go higher.

[caniggia]

I don't get it, I rewritten tune, same values, now works.

[tbrtuning]

Hmm. That is interesting. I had a Coyote Mustang doing really weird things once and reflashing fixed it. Spark was randomly dropping like it was using something other than Borderline for no reason. Was doing it just driving along pulling like 10 degrees. I guess sometimes things get corrupted in the writes.

[caniggia]

So... That's shit. Im not changing anything, just reflashing same file. One time exhaust temp limit, second time no boost, third hesitation...

[tbrtuning]

Are you doing a Write Entire? 2015+ will write calibration only as default so if having strange issues I would try a Write Entire.

[caniggia]

Ok, I will try, it was calibrations

[caniggia]

Are you doing a Write Entire? 2015+ will write calibration only as default so if having strange issues I would try a Write Entire.

That's it

[Auto-Hentzschel]

That's it

How I said to you Pawel 😉 Ecoboost are sometimes strange.

[tbrtuning]

If they have been flashed with Cobb first I would write entire your first write to it just in case.

[caniggia]

Car was stock 1000 miles.

[Witt]

If they have been flashed with Cobb first I would write entire your first write to it just in case.

I agree. Cobb doesn't calculate checksums after the tune is saved, just of like SCT, and can really play games with 2015+ that have the write cal only option.