3.5 EcoBoost Advice?

[Gremlin85]

Maybe someone could also figure out a ghost cam tune on these as well.

[96gt4.6]

The weather is finally clearing off here, so hopefully I'll get some free time and start poking at my '15. I've logged a few 3.5L Eco's while doing drive ability diagnosis at work, and I'm astounded at the very LOW ignition timing they run stock. Granted, I've only logged steel body ('11-14) setups so far, but I was amazed. Timing is around 1-5 degrees through the pull, AFR is 10.5-11.2:1 starting out in the 11's and ending in the 10's at the top of the gear. With those commanded parameters I had assumed that the IAT must be getting high, but was shocked to see it within 10 degrees of ambient the entire pull. Granted, this was on 87 octane pump gas as well.

Knowing this, there is a ton of room in the stock tuning even without changing boost levels in my opinion. I'd like to see a mid 11:1 AFR throughout the entire run, and around 8-10 degrees lead time on 91 octane fuel (on stock boost levels). Those changes alone, should produce a healthy result. To me, it seems as if these things are tuned VERY safe to say the least, most likely because they are touted to be such a durable setup, and they expect them to pull a load under WOT up pikes peak non stop, so things have to be ultra safe tuning wise to account for every possible situation.

I will keep the thread updated as I progress.

Also, does anyone have any insight as to what these have for mechanical goodies? Are they forged internals/ect? I honestly haven't looked into it at all!

[Gerrot]

Can't wait to see how it goes for you! I will be putting this one on the dyno in stock form soon. Then seeing what we can get with simple adjustments and I will be sure to let everyone know what the gains were!

[96gt4.6]

So far so good! Looks like the timing peaks around 9 degrees with 14 psi of boost. Lambda is in the .790-810 range. This is on 91 octane and an entirely stock '15 F150

[13EcoScrew]

I am struggling to find any type of target lambda table or anything of the sorts on my Ecoboost. I assume there is some type of base fuel table, but maybe I assume wrong! Wondering if anyone can point me in the right direction. I have never tuned a newer Ford, so I apologize for my newb question if there is an easy answer. I am so used to tuning aftermarket ECM's with VE tables, etc. Thanks!

[96gt4.6]

Finally starting to get some free time to poke at this thing.

So far, i'm liking how they have multiple pedal ratio and feel tables for Sport Mode/4wd/Normal mode. I had noticed that in sport mode the throttle is scaled much better, and is more dead for the first 1/2 pedal or so in Normal mode. Copying all the sport mode tables to normal mode was a great driveability improvement to say the least, for me.



A couple of logs show that the stock tune is running around 9 degrees timing. This is on 91 octane and air charge temps in the 80 degree range. Looks like the cylinder pressure limit table is where that spark is being sourced from, as the MBT and Borderline tables are all set much higher. Interesting how Ford does it and how much flexibility the tune has in it for varying conditions. I have not yet started into tuning the boost or timing, nor scaling back the TQ management, which is very heavy by the way. Past 5200 rpm you can clearly log the throttle body closing up to the shift point. There is most certainly a lot left in these stock tunes performance wise.


I have yet to decipher how to adjust the boost though. I'm not entirely sure if I need to command more torque via the driver demand, then adjust my boost limit/turbo limit clips, or adjust some of the waste gate settings and boost limiter clips. I'd like to add about 4-5 lbs and adjust from there. More poking around on that here shortly. I will post results as I obtain them.

[Gremlin85]

Awesome to see that 96GT!

Once my truck is in for warranty work and everything is sorted with a weird transmission buzz I have going on, I'll be hooking into her and playing with its fiddly bits.

I'm not touching it until the dealer clears my trans, tho.

[96gt4.6]

Let me guess, seems like the buzz is worse when cold, or when going into or out of Park?

[Gremlin85]

Let me guess, seems like the buzz is worse when cold, or when going into or out of Park?

Yes it is.

Seems to be a separator plate of some sort inside the transmission that vibrates when fluid passes over it. It actually did it while warm and accelerating through 3rd and 4th gear.

[96gt4.6]

Yes it is.

Seems to be a separator plate of some sort inside the transmission that vibrates when fluid passes over it. It actually did it while warm and accelerating through 3rd and 4th gear.

Correct. It's pretty common, I've done many of them for that concern, and there is a TSB for that fix they will perform.

[Gremlin85]

Correct. It's pretty common, I've done many of them for that concern, and there is a TSB for that fix they will perform.

I have an appointment for Thursday morning with my dealer. Expecting this to be routine with a TSB in place.

After that, I've diving into the tune and seeing what I can come up with.

[MOR]

Been following this thread for a while, it's good to see there are a few other guys out there starting to tune these ecoboosts. My personal truck is a 2012 F150 and so far I have gotten the throttle body to work the way I want and was able to turn the boost up 2lbs but any input on getting timing dialed in would be greatly appreciated just trying to figure out exactly where to adjust it for WOT.

[96gt4.6]

I have an appointment for Thursday morning with my dealer. Expecting this to be routine with a TSB in place.

After that, I've diving into the tune and seeing what I can come up with.

Sounds great, and please do share as you progress!

Been following this thread for a while, it's good to see there are a few other guys out there starting to tune these ecoboosts. My personal truck is a 2012 F150 and so far I have gotten the throttle body to work the way I want and was able to turn the boost up 2lbs but any input on getting timing dialed in would be greatly appreciated just trying to figure out exactly where to adjust it for WOT.

Timing adjustments on the Ford's are a little more complex, no doudt. There are quite a few tables to modify to get it where you want it, depending on if Optimum Power mode is enabled, ect.

I'd have to peek into a '12 Tune and see if it's the same, but my '15 has the OP mode disabled factory, so it blends a mixture of the remaining tables, which are set at around 26 degrees maximum. On stock boost levels, this obviously is too much timing so they are using the Cylinder Pressure Limit table to keep it around 9 degrees. Interesting how it's setup all factory. I could raise the Cylinder Pressure limit table a bit to run a few more degrees on my setup, but right now i'm still deciphering boost control, which appears very different from the tables in the 11-14's. Once I get that panned out, i'll come back and move the timing up slowly.

Currently starting the turbo kit fabrication on my Turbo Coyote Marauder project, so it may be a bit before I hop back on the pickup, but i'm all ears to any help offered!

[MOR]

Thanks for the tips gonna be doing some tuning today.

[ypena02]

What is OP mode?

[jchambers]

Optimum Performance

[MOR]

With OP mode enabled all of the timing for WOT comes from the optimum power table under borderline spark mapped points but keep in mind that there are other spark multipliers and corrections that can change these spark numbers too. This was on my 2012 ecoboost F150 by the way.

[96gt4.6]

Well I've got to poking at mine recently, but i'm still unsure of exactly where some things are derived from. I'm wanting to adjust boost pressure, but just not sure how to go about doing so. Understand where the spark is coming from or being subtracted, how to set AFR and such, but i'm still unsure on boost. I know from previously tuning some stock boosted GM vehicles, it has to do with asking for more TQ, which in turn asks for more boost.

It does not appear to function that way with these setups, or i'm simply not understanding how it works.

I've tried upping the Driver Demand TQ, but boost levels still remain stock.

I know that the Wastegate control on these setups is pressure actuated, and the more Wastegate duty cycle commanded the less boost. I suppose I could try carefully scaling the DC v. Canister Pressure table, as I believe this would achieve more boost, then move some of the limiters up as far as max boost and such. But, i'm just not sure if this is the 'proper' way to go about it, or if asking for more TQ is the proper way.

The 2015+ appear to have different boost controls than the '14 downward. I've looked at a few tunes both stock and modified (SCT Tunes) on those older trucks to try and decipher how boost is being controlled, but it's still a little bit of a puzzle to me at this point.




I will share my findings as I have time to play with it more in between my other project, any help appreciated!

[96gt4.6]

To me, it seems as if getting the Desired TIP (Throttle Inlet Pressure) up is what you're after when tuning the boost level here, then changing some of the limiters on the turbo/wastegate settings as not to go past them. I'm going to poke at some parameters some more and see if I can get the desired TIP up at this point.

[MOR]

On my 2012 I upped the turbo protection limiting numbers a bit and started playing with the wastegate duty cycle to get boost up but at this point im not able to hold boost that well so im starting to adjust the proportional and integral gains to flatten the curve. I'm guessig that the wastegate solenoid runs on a PI loop to adjust how the selenoid is cycled but im not completely sure if it can be tuned like your typical closed loop system.