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Thread: 05 pre/post injection off

  1. #61
    Tuner 2007 5.9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blevins View Post
    Yeah its an auto. Im also having an issue when u go WOT at 65mph it goes to down shift and sets at 32-3300rpm and bucks. When i log main fuel correction its saying high speed govnr i also get the boost P.F.... Never noticed this new issue of the down shift until last night when i kicked it down on the hwy to do a log.
    High speed governor is a rpm limiter
    Les Szmidt
    Silver Bullet Tuning
    HP Tuners BETA Tester for 2003-2005 Cummins
    [email protected]

  2. #62
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    0x34 Air Density under Master Fuel Correction Reason is what?

    This limit wherever it is, is the reason that changing the map so dramatically had no difference in the performance..

    Anyone else have an idea?

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2007 5.9 View Post
    High speed governor is a rpm limiter
    Would you mind taking a look at my tune file and give me a hand at fixing this issue? I have maxed all the governor tables i feel comfortable maxing out to try and get rid of this....

  4. #64
    Tuner 2007 5.9's Avatar
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    Post the tune and log
    Les Szmidt
    Silver Bullet Tuning
    HP Tuners BETA Tester for 2003-2005 Cummins
    [email protected]

  5. #65
    Tuner Turbo_Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2007 5.9 View Post
    No sir...there is no real need to rescale any of the tables UNLESS your looking for 4000+rpm, in which case you would re-map the far right side of the RPM axis in the main timing table, so you have full and accurate control.

    You should be able to see with logging "Master Fuel Correction Reason" what is holdiong you back.

    It may be something as simple as taking a limiter table to 160mm3 instead of 145mm3...

    Les,

    Question for you. You are saying to request 160 mm3 for "full fuel", but not to rescale the PW table(or any of the tables). The original question by Blevins was about this. The injector PW table I have on my 04.5 is only scaled to 140 mm3. From my experience of many other automotive tuning platforms, if you exceed the maximum scaling of any table, it will no longer interpolate, it will just stay at the value of the highest column. So from how I see this, I could request 300 mm3 and I will still get the pulse width of 140 mm3, since that is the maximum lookup value defined. Am I missing something?

    On my early 04 truck, I requested 250 mm3 in the pedal table, and I rescaled the PW map only on the final column, to 260 mm3 and played with the PW only on that one column. It seemed to have the intended result, so I dont believe the requested mm3 amount has any actual math behind it besides being referenced by the limiters and being a lookup value on the PW table. I know it's nowhere an actual quantity of 250, but it was visual for me that I am requesting above the stock amount of fuel. And I scaled most of the tables up to 5k rpm.

    It seems like the common theme here is to leave the IPW fuel quantity scale alone and then just lie to the duration time until the desired fuel is provided, but then that would make the 140 mm3 quantity false.
    Last edited by Turbo_Mike; 02-13-2016 at 09:50 PM.
    2003 305/555 QCSB Cummins
    Piston/rod/sleeve/fire ring/dual CP3/300 overs
    Super Stick NV5600
    S366/S480

  6. #66
    Tuner 2007 5.9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbo_Mike View Post
    Les,

    Question for you. You are saying to request 160 mm3 for "full fuel", but not to rescale the PW table(or any of the tables). The original question by Blevins was about this. The injector PW table I have on my 04.5 is only scaled to 140 mm3. From my experience of many other automotive tuning platforms, if you exceed the maximum scaling of any table, it will no longer interpolate, it will just stay at the value of the highest column. So from how I see this, I could request 300 mm3 and I will still get the pulse width of 140 mm3, since that is the maximum lookup value defined. Am I missing something?

    On my early 04 truck, I requested 250 mm3 in the pedal table, and I rescaled the PW map only on the final column, to 260 mm3 and played with the PW only on that one column. It seemed to have the intended result, so I dont believe the requested mm3 amount has any actual math behind it besides being referenced by the limiters and being a lookup value on the PW table. I know it's nowhere an actual quantity of 250, but it was visual for me that I am requesting above the stock amount of fuel. And I scaled most of the tables up to 5k rpm.

    It seems like the common theme here is to leave the IPW fuel quantity scale alone and then just lie to the duration time until the desired fuel is provided, but then that would make the 140 mm3 quantity false.

    So with you re-scaling the pulse to 260...what did you actually record for a max mm3 value?
    Les Szmidt
    Silver Bullet Tuning
    HP Tuners BETA Tester for 2003-2005 Cummins
    [email protected]

  7. #67
    Tuner Turbo_Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2007 5.9 View Post
    So with you re-scaling the pulse to 260...what did you actually record for a max mm3 value?
    You still didn't answer my question or Blevins. Are you intentionally asking for a value higher than the scale to max out the PW table earlier? Are you using that to make more power down low or have a quicker pedal response?

    And I got what I asked for. All limiters off and rescaled. Single event injection. And full fuel to 4800.
    2003 305/555 QCSB Cummins
    Piston/rod/sleeve/fire ring/dual CP3/300 overs
    Super Stick NV5600
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  8. #68
    Tuner 2007 5.9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbo_Mike View Post
    You still didn't answer my question or Blevins. Are you intentionally asking for a value higher than the scale to max out the PW table earlier? Are you using that to make more power down low or have a quicker pedal response?

    And I got what I asked for. All limiters off and rescaled. Single event injection. And full fuel to 4800.
    I am not asking the tune to do anything special...I dont rescale the pulse table nor the pressure table...I only modify the timing RPM axis to where Im looking to run max RPM at.

    I have no problem hitting 155-160mm3 on a log with leaving the pulse table maxed at 140mm3.

    And yes i have my 140mm3 cells as my max pulse area...I could easily mimic the 6.7's with 160mm3 but I dont see the need to as i can hit my target values as the table sits.

    Maybe I am misunderstanding your questions...
    Les Szmidt
    Silver Bullet Tuning
    HP Tuners BETA Tester for 2003-2005 Cummins
    [email protected]

  9. #69
    Tuner Turbo_Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2007 5.9 View Post
    I am not asking the tune to do anything special...I dont rescale the pulse table nor the pressure table...I only modify the timing RPM axis to where Im looking to run max RPM at.

    I have no problem hitting 155-160mm3 on a log with leaving the pulse table maxed at 140mm3.

    And yes i have my 140mm3 cells as my max pulse area...I could easily mimic the 6.7's with 160mm3 but I dont see the need to as i can hit my target values as the table sits.

    Maybe I am misunderstanding your questions...
    I think you are.

    mm3.jpg

    If I request a value more than 140 (and the limiters allow it) I still will only get the amount of PW that is in the 140 mm3 colum.
    MM3 is a lookup value for the limiters and the PW table, not a real amount of fuel, especially once you alter the PW table.

    I believe the "TOTAL FUEL RATE" in the logger may be including pre and post events which could explain why it would show more than 140mm3.
    I just tuned an 04.5 and I requested 145 in the pedal table main event, and logger shows up to 158 at times. Which makes perfect sense if it was showing my pilot event plus my main event (post was turned off)

    If you log main event PW, it wont go any higher than your highest column on the PW table, if you request 160 or 260 its still the 140 PW.
    So the only way I could see any benefit of requesting 160 from a 140 table would be to max it out sooner, or to make sure it stays on the 140 coulmn when adders or comps are trying to back it off. This is what I'm trying to understand.
    2003 305/555 QCSB Cummins
    Piston/rod/sleeve/fire ring/dual CP3/300 overs
    Super Stick NV5600
    S366/S480

  10. #70
    Tuner 2007 5.9's Avatar
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    Yes the total fuel rate does include pilot and post on its calculation
    Les Szmidt
    Silver Bullet Tuning
    HP Tuners BETA Tester for 2003-2005 Cummins
    [email protected]

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbo_Mike View Post
    I think you are.

    mm3.jpg

    If I request a value more than 140 (and the limiters allow it) I still will only get the amount of PW that is in the 140 mm3 colum.
    MM3 is a lookup value for the limiters and the PW table, not a real amount of fuel, especially once you alter the PW table.

    I believe the "TOTAL FUEL RATE" in the logger may be including pre and post events which could explain why it would show more than 140mm3.
    I just tuned an 04.5 and I requested 145 in the pedal table main event, and logger shows up to 158 at times. Which makes perfect sense if it was showing my pilot event plus my main event (post was turned off)

    If you log main event PW, it wont go any higher than your highest column on the PW table, if you request 160 or 260 its still the 140 PW.
    So the only way I could see any benefit of requesting 160 from a 140 table would be to max it out sooner, or to make sure it stays on the 140 coulmn when adders or comps are trying to back it off. This is what I'm trying to understand.

    This is confirmed. I changed my target to 188 and hit target mm3 the whole time with the same PW.

    Target throttle is only going to ask for more fuel or timing if you setup all your tables correctly. So you can use it for a couple things. To hit Max mm3 quicker,to give the throttle more resolution, + Others. This thread is so far off topic at this point. Lets close it out.
    2005 Cummins 325/600 G56 3.73
    Reving to 4800
    Worked Head, Twin Disc, BBI

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamofo View Post
    This is confirmed. I changed my target to 188 and hit target mm3 the whole time with the same PW.

    Target throttle is only going to ask for more fuel or timing if you setup all your tables correctly. So you can use it for a couple things. To hit Max mm3 quicker,to give the throttle more resolution, + Others. This thread is so far off topic at this point. Lets close it out.
    So you have a log showing 188mm3 of fuel rate?
    Les Szmidt
    Silver Bullet Tuning
    HP Tuners BETA Tester for 2003-2005 Cummins
    [email protected]

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2007 5.9 View Post
    So you have a log showing 188mm3 of fuel rate?
    Yes Les. Here is the picture just for you. Target is 188 + Pilot mm3 = 200 target. same speed, same us of fuel.just for les.png
    2005 Cummins 325/600 G56 3.73
    Reving to 4800
    Worked Head, Twin Disc, BBI

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Bamofo View Post
    Yes Les. Here is the picture just for you. Target is 188 + Pilot mm3 = 200 target. same speed, same us of fuel.just for les.png
    Interesting.

    Would you mind posting the actual tune file and log file so that Les and I can have a look at exactly what you've done?

  15. #75
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    Mopar Matty would u mind posting your tune file and logs to show everyone exactly what you've done on your truck?

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Blevins View Post
    Mopar Matty would u mind posting your tune file and logs to show everyone exactly what you've done on your truck?
    I'm just some dumb Canuck with a tin foil hat. I'm not good enough to hang with you professional tuners so I'll just keep my tuning here to myself.

    I don't blame him if he doesn't want to post up his stuff one bit. Never hurts to ask though.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamofo View Post
    This is confirmed. I changed my target to 188 and hit target mm3 the whole time with the same PW.

    Target throttle is only going to ask for more fuel or timing if you setup all your tables correctly. So you can use it for a couple things. To hit Max mm3 quicker,to give the throttle more resolution, + Others. This thread is so far off topic at this point. Lets close it out.


    Mopar Matty all you have to do is take the picture and make your target MM3 somethign like 188 on the bottom row. The higher you ramp this up along with the row below it the more agressively it gets to your max MM3 which is 140mm3 if you guys are not scaling it higher...

    Honestly the rest is just normal stuff.. If your going to request that high you need to also max the air density maps at 300 or somethign over 200... as that still doesnt fully work with the on off switch... But nothing fancy. Mine is fast enough at 2850uS which is the limit on my fueling system atm... with bigger injectors anything more then that empties the rail.

    Hope this helps.

    http://www.hptuners.com/forum/attach...9&d=1455639929
    Last edited by Bamofo; 03-09-2016 at 12:35 PM. Reason: putting in the picture for reference
    2005 Cummins 325/600 G56 3.73
    Reving to 4800
    Worked Head, Twin Disc, BBI