Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: Cummins engine swap

  1. #1
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    12

    Cummins engine swap

    I'm starting a Cummins engine swap into a 2008 F250, and I have a question about the ECM.

    From what I understand the 06+ Cummins ECMs communicates through the Dodge tipm, and the tipm acts as a interface to the Cummins ECM that's on the side of the engine, the the obd2 port under the dash.

    I've heard I'll need a tipm in order to get most tuners to work on a 2006+ Cummins. Is that the case with the HP tuner or can it talk directly to the Cummins ECM?

    Thanks guys.

  2. #2
    Potential Tuner
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    8
    Idk about hp tuners but I did a swap and used efi live to run the engine and trans with a harness I modified and it worked with out a tipm so I don't see why it wouldn't work with hp.

  3. #3
    Tuner
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Regina, Saskatchewan
    Posts
    136
    Keep us posted, I would like to know process, I had a 2008 F350 DRW I really liked and would have likely kept if I did Cummins swap. but was told it had to sell it after fixing the 6.4L since the girlfriend likes my lifted SRW better.

    day after I ordered all the parts to fix motor a nice 12V with 6spd got listed for 1200 locally which would have been nice setup since its not complicated. I hear the CR swaps are more of a pain.
    Chris T.

    2008 Ford F350 Super Duty 6.4L TT Diesel. 72MM turbo, 10" lift 38" NITTO MT's 5" Straight Pipe Exhaust
    2007 Escalade 6.2L
    2010 Lexus RX350 3.5L
    2003 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins 5.9 A4, 250hp SO 4" Back Exhaust
    2000 Camaro SS LS1 M6 - STS Turbo, FMIC, 60lb Deka's, Racetronix Fuel pump.
    2001 Lexus IS300
    2000 Toyota Aristo
    1998 Dodge Cummins 12v 5spd
    1998 Topkick Cat 3126E 7.2L
    1983 Toyota Hilux Pickup SR5
    2006 DRZ400
    2008 Turbo Nytro
    2010 Skidoo XP 800
    1978 Corvette

  4. #4
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    37
    The ECU should function just fine without a tipm. CAN is a shared network all devices go straight to can high low.

  5. #5
    Tuner in Training Matt@HPTuners's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    39
    HPTuners will interface to the PCM without the TIPM without issues.

    -Matt

  6. #6
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    12
    Thanks everyone. I've been reading up on the Cummins conversion sites and some say that you need a tipm to use "some aftermarket tuners" on post 2005 Cummins ECMs. I'm glad to see that's not the case with hp tuners.

    I've looked at EFI live but I don't think it will support the ford transmission. For the ford PCM most folks use an SCT which won't work for the Cummins. I would like to avoid buying a smarty/efi live and a SCT.

    So I'm planning on using the stock 5r110 transmission and reprogrammed controller with a 1600 rpm TC, so it kinda feels like I'm building a beast with 2 heads... I'll have the Cummins ECM controlling the engine and the ford PCM/TCM controlling the transmission. Luckily hp tuners supports both! I just need to buy more credits... And/Or find someone to help me tune it

    Can anyone recommend a shop that has experience with a Ford 5r110, and VCM? I'd give it a shot myself but I'm afraid of breaking something, at this point I feel I know just enough to be dangerous. Lol

    Thanks again!

  7. #7
    Tuner
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Kokomo,In
    Posts
    54
    Ive done a few fummins swaps and used pcs to tune the 5r100 i am sure i can help you with hpt software also as tuned quite a few 6.0s now
    Joe ''House'' Kupferschmid
    Diesel Tuning man..
    FB me or
    www.angoladavesdiesel.com

  8. #8
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    37
    I just tuned an 03' cummins in a 00' excursion that was swapped with painless wiring harness. Everything worked fine. Except this one was running an nv5600 so no trans work.

  9. #9
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    12
    Thanks guys.

    I'm looking into the PCS controller as a plan B, and a 6-speed as plan C. I've read the PCS controller isn't great at controlling the 5r110w. I don't know if this has been resolved or not, but since I already have the Ford PCM and it currently does a good job with the gas engine I'll see if I can make it happy behind a Cummins. I figure if I can supply all of the inputs to the Ford PCM that it would normally see with the stock engine, I can make it work. I will need to change shift rpm/speed, and maybe adjust clutch pressures for the increased torque.

    The engine signals I'm going to supply to the ford PCM using the ford sensors or signal converters are:
    CHT/ECT
    MAF
    IAT
    APPS/TPS
    MAP
    BARO
    CKP

    The sensors I'm not sure about are:

    Camshaft Position Sensors - There's two on the 5.4.
    02 sensors - probably not needed.
    COP and fuel injector open circuit detection - Hoping this wont piss off the ford PCM and cause it to do something I don't want it to do.
    EVAP, EGR, and other emissions equipment. Again. I'm hoping I can disable these and not cause other problems.

    Since my truck has a electronic throttle body (no throttle cable), I have a creative way to use the Fords ETB output to emulate the Dodge APPS signals. If I can disable the ETC error checking and idle control functions I don't see why it wont work. My signal converter takes a 0.8-4.8 PWM signal from the Ford PCM and converts it to a 0.4-2.6V analog signal for APPS2 and a .08-4.8V analog for APPS1 on the Cummins PCM.

  10. #10
    Tuner
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Middleboro, MA
    Posts
    141
    Quote Originally Posted by sasdakota View Post
    I just tuned an 03' cummins in a 00' excursion that was swapped with painless wiring harness. Everything worked fine. Except this one was running an nv5600 so no trans work.
    That sounds so awesome...

    I wonder how much work it was to make it all fit..
    2005 Cummins 325/600 G56 3.73
    Reving to 4800
    Worked Head, Twin Disc, BBI

  11. #11
    Tuner Turbo_Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Putnam, CT
    Posts
    129
    Quote Originally Posted by hydrocarbon302 View Post
    Thanks guys.

    The engine signals I'm going to supply to the ford PCM using the ford sensors or signal converters are:
    CHT/ECT
    MAF
    IAT
    APPS/TPS
    MAP
    BARO
    CKP

    The sensors I'm not sure about are:

    Camshaft Position Sensors - There's two on the 5.4.
    02 sensors - probably not needed.
    COP and fuel injector open circuit detection - Hoping this wont piss off the ford PCM and cause it to do something I don't want it to do.
    EVAP, EGR, and other emissions equipment. Again. I'm hoping I can disable these and not cause other problems.

    Since my truck has a electronic throttle body (no throttle cable), I have a creative way to use the Fords ETB output to emulate the Dodge APPS signals. If I can disable the ETC error checking and idle control functions I don't see why it wont work. My signal converter takes a 0.8-4.8 PWM signal from the Ford PCM and converts it to a 0.4-2.6V analog signal for APPS2 and a .08-4.8V analog for APPS1 on the Cummins PCM.
    The cummins computer uses APPS1 vs APPS2 for tps error checking. Make sure the output to APPS1 is always exactly half of APPS2 or you will be chasing limp mode.

    There is no MAF on your cummins, you could put one I guess, but to my knowledge, no transmission criteria is changed by airflow. The transmission needs input rpm (derived from crank sensor) and tps. That's about it for NECESSARY signals from the engine side to physically still shift. Shift points are tps/mph unless at WOT. So is converter lockup.

    I don't think it will be that bad. Give it the minimum requirements, it will shift.

    -Mike
    2004.5 325/600 NV5600 3.73 RCLB SRW
    1G 12V rectanglular manifold swap, HE351 clocked and rotated
    5" turboback, IAH delete, flatbed

  12. #12
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    12
    Thanks Mike!

    I wasn't sure if it was APPS1 or APPS2 that got the /2 signal, but yea the signal converter will take the voltage from the Ford ECM's ETB output and convert into two analog signals. One will be exactly half the voltage of the other.

    I going to use the MAF for the Ford PCM & 5R110W, I'm not sure which signals it needs to see to properly shift, and control the torque converter. I was thinking the MAF/MAP/BARO is needed to calculate engine load and boost pressures, so the PCM could call for the required clutch/line pressures depending on engine load.

  13. #13
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt@HPTuners View Post
    HPTuners will interface to the PCM without the TIPM without issues.

    -Matt

    I finally got a engine from a 2006 Dodge Cummins. I didn't get a PCM with it but I think I have located one that will work.

    I've been looking over wiring diagrams for a 2006 Ram Truck, and I see that the data link connector (OBD2 port) uses CANBUS C diagnostic (or CANBUS D) to connect directly to the TIPM and then the TIPM connects to the Cummins ECM via the regular CAN C network. I'm thinking that most box tuners as well as the scanners that the Dodge dealer uses need to connect via CANBUS C diagnostic and not directly to the CANBUS C network.

    It sounds like HPT will connect using either the CAN C Diag via the data link port OR directly to the CAN C network.

    Diesel Conversion Specialists have a wiring harness service where they take my Ford and Cummins harness and make it plug and play, but they require that I use a TIPM. I going to see if I can pick up a "bad" one that needs repaired because I'm only using the CAN network hub portion of it, which AFAIK does not get damaged when one commonly fails. The disadvantage is the TIPM is going to be looking for all of the missing modules on the C and B networks and I don't know what if any problems that will cause.

  14. #14
    Potential Tuner
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    2

    Conversion

    Spooled05, I am ordering parts now for a conversion on my ride. I am converting 2008 F350 DRW 4x4 to 2006 Cummins CR 24 Valve , who did your wiring and did the EFI control both the Cummins ECM and the Ford Trans controller? Did you do the programing or can you suggest who for me to use for the programming? Forgot to ask who did your harness wiring? Thanks

  15. #15
    Potential Tuner
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by spooled05 View Post
    Idk about hp tuners but I did a swap and used efi live to run the engine and trans with a harness I modified and it worked with out a tipm so I don't see why it wouldn't work with hp.
    Spooled05 how did the EFI work out as the TCm tuner for your 5R110? I am starting the same conversion 2008 F350 6.4l to 2006 CR and need a little help on the TCM and associated wiring to make the EFI work also for the Transmission, any knowledge would help!!

  16. #16
    Potential Tuner
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    8
    Mine was with a 48re .

  17. #17
    run 2 obd ports, run the 6.4 tcm for the trans if you are keeping the 5r110, it works wonderfully at controlling it and is far better than the junk PCS controller that is available.

  18. #18
    Potential Tuner
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    9
    Does anyone have a tune file for fummins swap? Ive got 12valve in 2008 f350 with stock pcm tcm and getting flares between 2-3 and 3-5 shift at anything more than maybe 1/4 throttle.

  19. #19
    pull your file and post it, me or someone else here will help you out