Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Running Walbro F9000274 or 267 On Stock FPCM

  1. #1
    Senior Tuner LSxpwrdZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    on the Dyno
    Posts
    1,825

    Running Walbro F9000274 or 267 On Stock FPCM

    I'm working on a 2010 Camaro project and we have a Fore Innovations twin pump setup with return and vacuum/boost referenced regulator. I know alot will say just delete the FPCM and do it old school but I find this challenging to make this system work with the factory controller so that I can retain fuel pressure feedback.

    With that said I am currently powering one of the two pumps from the factory FPCM since these pumps are PWM compatible I figured we could give it a try and see what happens. Thus far with only a few hours of run time on the dyno everything seems to be happy and commanded fuel pressure is achieved and held throughout various loads. I have the second pump hooked to Fores FC3 controller and is activated with a 5psi hobbs switch. I also have the regulator cranked up so that the FPCM can modulate the pump to control pressure.

    I have found we don't have access to raw FPCM data stream to log so I pulled out my snap on scanner to watch raw duty cycle of the pump and found out that there are short term and long term PWM trims that the controller learns over time. Prior to seeing this I had set the regulator to 450kpa (50kpa above commanded) to give the FPCM control over the pump. I found that only 50kpa above commanded wasn't enough as the pump trims had long term learning up to around 18-20% + and short term was still positive and slowly transferring that to the long term. Pump duty cycle was hovering around 70-80% as well. So I used a little logic and thought well maybe the regulator is bleeding too much so I cranked it on down some more to reduce the free flow of the return line. This worked because pump duty cycle immediately lowered to 45-50% and the trims started lowering as well. To speed things up luckily the snap on scan tool allowed me to reset the FPCM PWM trims so I did so and to my surprise after running for 10-15 minutes the trims were +/-2%.

    As of now it is looking up for the factory FPCM to control one of the F90000274 pumps. I'm just hoping that the FPCM is up to the task of the extra amperage load required of the larger Walbro. I am going to do more testing tomorrow to see how it reacts to harsher loads and monitor FPCM voltage to see if I need to supply a larger gauge wire to the FPCM to help supply the amperage draw from the larger pump. Regardless I don't think the primary pump will ever see harsh demands since the secondary pump is on a hobbs switch and when it engages is on 100% meaning duty cycle for the primary pump is going to plummet since it'll be trying to maintain 400kpa pressure while the secondary pump being on 100% will undoubtedly push it up to around where the regulator under the hood is preset to.

    I wanted to post this since I've not found any "Good" information on how the system works and what people have tried doing with it. With that said has anyone else tried running a Walbro F9000267 or F90000274 pump off the factory FPCM???
    James Short - [email protected]
    Located in Central Kentucky
    ShorTuning
    2020 Camaro 2SS | BTR 230 | GPI CNC Heads | MSD Intake | Rotofab | 2" LT's | Flex Fuel | 638rwhp / 540rwtq
    2002 Camaro | LSX 427 | CID LS7's | Twin GT5088's | Haltech Nexus R5 | RPM TH400

  2. #2
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    4,856
    You may run into issues with too much current draw when the pump on the FPCM actually has to approach 100% duty cycle. If I can get some freaking time, I plan on making my own replacement FPCM that won't cry when a non stock pump is hooked up to it. I've been pursuing a couple other avenues as well, but everyone is extremely tight lipped.

    DSX Tuning - Authorized HP Tuners Dealer
    http://www.dsxtuning.com
    http://www.facebook.com/dsx.tuning
    Just say no to bull s***.
    IF YOU WANT HELP, POST A FILE!

  3. #3
    Senior Tuner LSxpwrdZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    on the Dyno
    Posts
    1,825
    I'm hoping the fuel demand from this setup under load with the second pump on won't be demanding anywhere close to 100% from the primary pump. I'm really surprised someone hasn't already came up with a solution. People don't understand how nice of a system it is to have fuel pressure feedback along with the ECM using it for pressure delta.
    James Short - [email protected]
    Located in Central Kentucky
    ShorTuning
    2020 Camaro 2SS | BTR 230 | GPI CNC Heads | MSD Intake | Rotofab | 2" LT's | Flex Fuel | 638rwhp / 540rwtq
    2002 Camaro | LSX 427 | CID LS7's | Twin GT5088's | Haltech Nexus R5 | RPM TH400

  4. #4
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    4,856
    Quote Originally Posted by LSxpwrdZ View Post
    I'm hoping the fuel demand from this setup under load with the second pump on won't be demanding anywhere close to 100% from the primary pump. I'm really surprised someone hasn't already came up with a solution. People don't understand how nice of a system it is to have fuel pressure feedback along with the ECM using it for pressure delta.
    This is why I made a system for CTS-Vs and ZL1s, and this week will be doing one for ZR1s. Live feedback from the FPCM is priceless.

    DSX Tuning - Authorized HP Tuners Dealer
    http://www.dsxtuning.com
    http://www.facebook.com/dsx.tuning
    Just say no to bull s***.
    IF YOU WANT HELP, POST A FILE!

  5. #5
    Senior Tuner LSxpwrdZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    on the Dyno
    Posts
    1,825
    Just as I suspected the duty cycle on the primary pump dropped to 35% from 65% once the second pump came on.
    James Short - [email protected]
    Located in Central Kentucky
    ShorTuning
    2020 Camaro 2SS | BTR 230 | GPI CNC Heads | MSD Intake | Rotofab | 2" LT's | Flex Fuel | 638rwhp / 540rwtq
    2002 Camaro | LSX 427 | CID LS7's | Twin GT5088's | Haltech Nexus R5 | RPM TH400

  6. #6
    Senior Tuner LSxpwrdZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    on the Dyno
    Posts
    1,825
    Gonna put in a ticket to see if we can get the pids added to log fpcm data. Come in handy on cars with those setups.
    James Short - [email protected]
    Located in Central Kentucky
    ShorTuning
    2020 Camaro 2SS | BTR 230 | GPI CNC Heads | MSD Intake | Rotofab | 2" LT's | Flex Fuel | 638rwhp / 540rwtq
    2002 Camaro | LSX 427 | CID LS7's | Twin GT5088's | Haltech Nexus R5 | RPM TH400

  7. #7
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    4,856
    Quote Originally Posted by LSxpwrdZ View Post
    Gonna put in a ticket to see if we can get the pids added to log fpcm data. Come in handy on cars with those setups.
    Good luck. I asked and was told there was such little demand that without providing exact details of the CAN data, it more than likely won't get added. I'm working to get that info... But then I decided if I'm going that far, I may as well make my own FPCM.
    Last edited by DSteck; 04-03-2016 at 06:49 PM.

    DSX Tuning - Authorized HP Tuners Dealer
    http://www.dsxtuning.com
    http://www.facebook.com/dsx.tuning
    Just say no to bull s***.
    IF YOU WANT HELP, POST A FILE!

  8. #8
    Senior Tuner LSxpwrdZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    on the Dyno
    Posts
    1,825
    Quote Originally Posted by DSteck View Post
    Good luck. I asked and was told there was such little demand that without providing exact details of the CAN data, it more than likely won't get added. I'm working to get that info... But then I decided if I'm going that far, I may as well make my own FPCM.
    Wonder if they compensate for doing all the work of fishing the can bus data?!? I find that's a little bigger deal than just not needing it. It'll give great feedback on fuel system demands.

    A whole new fpcm on steroids would be the sizzle! Probably get fancy and capable of phasing in a second pump PWM as well.
    James Short - [email protected]
    Located in Central Kentucky
    ShorTuning
    2020 Camaro 2SS | BTR 230 | GPI CNC Heads | MSD Intake | Rotofab | 2" LT's | Flex Fuel | 638rwhp / 540rwtq
    2002 Camaro | LSX 427 | CID LS7's | Twin GT5088's | Haltech Nexus R5 | RPM TH400

  9. #9
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    4,856
    If I go in the direction I want to, it'll run up to three, but I wasn't planning to pwm them... Just stage them based on activation MAP values. Beefy enough drivers for three individual pumps would get bulky and expensive.

    DSX Tuning - Authorized HP Tuners Dealer
    http://www.dsxtuning.com
    http://www.facebook.com/dsx.tuning
    Just say no to bull s***.
    IF YOU WANT HELP, POST A FILE!

  10. #10
    Senior Tuner LSxpwrdZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    on the Dyno
    Posts
    1,825
    Quote Originally Posted by DSteck View Post
    If I go in the direction I want to, it'll run up to three, but I wasn't planning to pwm them... Just stage them based on activation MAP values. Beefy enough drivers for three individual pumps would get bulky and expensive.
    I would just be happy with a stock module with the pump circuit code deleted. Only thing I'm using it for anyway is fuel pressure feedback. I'd rather run the pumps off the Fore FC3 anyway.
    James Short - [email protected]
    Located in Central Kentucky
    ShorTuning
    2020 Camaro 2SS | BTR 230 | GPI CNC Heads | MSD Intake | Rotofab | 2" LT's | Flex Fuel | 638rwhp / 540rwtq
    2002 Camaro | LSX 427 | CID LS7's | Twin GT5088's | Haltech Nexus R5 | RPM TH400

  11. #11
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    399
    I'm running a 267 pump with a stock fpcm. No issues

  12. #12
    Senior Tuner LSxpwrdZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    on the Dyno
    Posts
    1,825
    Funny how things come full circle with the ability to tune FPCM's now...
    James Short - [email protected]
    Located in Central Kentucky
    ShorTuning
    2020 Camaro 2SS | BTR 230 | GPI CNC Heads | MSD Intake | Rotofab | 2" LT's | Flex Fuel | 638rwhp / 540rwtq
    2002 Camaro | LSX 427 | CID LS7's | Twin GT5088's | Haltech Nexus R5 | RPM TH400

  13. #13
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    328
    Yes its an old thread but the topic fits exactly. I modded a stock fuel bucket to take a Walbro 450. I set up a bench test for it with the pump module in a bucket of fuel, a power supply, pwm motor driver, gallon jug, and a stopwatch. Got 489 lbs/hr at 75 psi from it at 100% duty cycle. But my concern is that, for some reason, the pump did not want to run stable when under about 35-38% duty cycle at 43 psi. It acted as if there were air pockets. The pump speed seemed to flare up, pressure would drop 10 psi, then recover.
    Intermittent. Never did it at duty cycles above this, and I don't recall it doing so when duty cycle was very low but no restriction. Even after all of the testing at mid and max flows, when going back to the lower duty cycle it would occur again, which makes me doubt air pockets.

    My stock cal goes down to 18% duty at 15v and 300 kpa, with a MIN of 10%. I realize that I can change the min duty cycle but it would seem that I am going to overpower the injectors and run rich. If my math is right, flow output at 45 psi and 38% duty cycle was roughly 22 lbs/hr. (took 17 min to fill a gallon jug). Running 72 lb injectors.

    Has anyone else tried driving bigger aftermarket pumps with the FPCM at low duty cycles? My question is not of the FPCM but more of the pumps running low % dc.

  14. #14
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    328
    Update to my post above. The Walbro 450 is in the tank, with a tee feeding the stock venturi. As when bench testing, pump does not want to give steady pressure below 30-35 % duty cycle, which puts my min stable pressure around 375 kpa. But the new pump did drop the peak duty cycle from 90% to 75%.

    Wish that the scanner could reset fuel pump trims, however. Kind of a pain to unplug HP and plug in a GM scan tool to reset pump trims every time I make changes to the FSCM cal.