Caliber changing WOT VE causes throttle pull?

[Awd1990tsi]

Basically like the title states. I have a file that runs perfectly fine aside from it being a bit lean and still not scaled for my larger injectors. I adjust the VE table to see if it rich enough to change the injector size and be safe and it's closing the throttle on me a second or so into the pull. afr with the increased VE is in the low 11's to upper/mid 10's depending on the rpm range, and the boost it gets up to before it starts to close the throttle down.

So I guess the question in this is, is there something else I need to be changing along with the VE table to stop the throttle pull problem? Or any other advice would be handy.

Just to give some info that might somehow be helpful. car is currently off solenoid control (big turbo external wastegate), makes about 16-17psi when the throttle doesn't close on me, 550cc injectors, upgraded cams, and all the bolt on goodies.

[06300CSRT8]

Not much we can do to help without a copy of a log and tune. Can you post?

[Awd1990tsi]

I don't have a log from these files as I've been using my scan guage to monitor throttle % and ST knock. But the lean file worked well, and I've made a couple other changes in the rich file now that I'm going to be trying today, like larger injector size, and pulled a lot of timing out just to remove that as a variable.

[06300CSRT8]

Max out the ENGINE DIAG>GENERAL>Torque Delta and torque delta fault see if it stops closing the TB.

[Awd1990tsi]

I'll give that a shot too. Small update, that richer tune I sent is on the car now, and it has a mostly stock timing map. Seems to be running close to my desired afr. It wasn't closing the throttle like it was before, But now it seems I'm getting spark blow out, at the same boost I was at with the leaner tune. Gonna try pulling the plugs tomorrow to clean and regap them a little smaller.

Hopefully it was just something odd like the extra fuel was causing a little knock at the more advanced timing. If I can get the afr and throttle pull nailed down then it's on the the fun stuff like getting the external wastegate and boost control solenoid playing nicely together lol.

[06300CSRT8]

You gotta log bud you'll never know what's up until you do, if you have a wideband you should take the hour or two it takes to wire it up to your HP, your whole world will change lol. I have gauges setup HUGE AFR and knock on my laptop don't need my aeroforce while logging.

[Awd1990tsi]

I did log this last run. Just don't have wifi at work to post it from my laptop. And knock isn't a supported pid for the caliber apparently, HP support says there is no ETA on it. So I've been going between the 2. Log some runs, if nothing seems crazy there I plug the aeroforce back in and check for knock. But I have been meaning to hook the wideband up to the laptop interface, have the signal wire ran just need to run the ground and plug it in. Work schedule and weather here have been delaying my attempted tuning efforts.

[06300CSRT8]

There are ways around logging knock, have you tried to pull in your knock sensor voltages? I've set up maths that once over the threshold voltage I calculated some knock.

[Awd1990tsi]

I thought about using voltage too. But when searching through the supported channels when connected to my car nothing shows up for knock. Only thing timing related is spark advance. The lack of being able to monitor knock on the laptop has been a headache so far lol. so I'm open for ideas if you might know of a way around it

[posenheimer]

Subscribing, We have played around with a whole lot of settings on these things and Still have throttle pull issues and random enrichment issues. I was thinking that there are some tables that we cannot see yet in the HP Tuners software having to do with cat over temp protection. We could do one pool with the car cooled off and nothing, then go to make another hit and it pulls the throttle again.

It is odd though that it only became and issue after the boost is increased, so that makes me think that maybe we are hitting a torque/ airflow limiter somewhere that we cannot see. We have literally drained fresh laptops from start to finish experimenting, trying to understand and conquer these quirky Calibers.

[06300CSRT8]

Have you guys changed up the torque diagnostics?

Engine Diag>General>Torque Correlation>Torque Delta and Torque Delta Fault?

Try to max those out, see if you have the same issue. In the OP tune I see those values left as stock.

[posenheimer]

Yes, all of those values have already been maxed out on our end tuning wise.

[GCtech]

Welcome to the club, I was told that Hp doesnt have the secondary torque limiter tables and getting the throttle to stay open in wot rpm range is nerly impossible :/

[posenheimer]

that makes sense to me^^^^^

[06300CSRT8]

Still no log of this actually happening?

[posenheimer]

Still no log of this actually happening?

You can see the throttle pulls back 50 percent by 5800 rpm

[06300CSRT8]

I know you guys have it tough with what you can log, that log is missing a lot to be able to figure it out, but to me it looks like a combination of COT and maybe knock torque retard. Looking at your commanded EQ ratio in the tune (11.5972) for most of the RPM range versus the nearly 9.2 AFR commanded during the log means it is trying to dump fuel, hitting a fuel cap (either max flow or duty cycle) and then closing the throttle to try to compensate. I don't see anything in the COT tab of your tune to disable it, have you found a different way to disable it?

Also your calculated engine load looks very funky at 12% but that could just be a result of maxing out all your torque limits, as that parameter is just a basic calc of max times wherever you are in the rpm range.

[06300CSRT8]

You may want to try to play with ENGINE>TORQUE MANAGEMENT>Turbocharger the Boost Torque Limit>Max Lambda EGT.

I assume this is the maximum RICH the PCM can command based on a torque reduction. It is 0.00 which means basically unlimited rich lambda could be commanded. Maybe try to set this closer to your desired AFR so it cannot command anything richer?

[06300CSRT8]

Also under Engine Diag>Airflow>Throttle Inlet Pressure Sensor

Everything looks to be around 215kpa max, and even more noteworthy is the Max TIP High Octane table which maxes out at 180kpa right at 5,576 rpms which is the EXACT spot your throttle gets pulled. I don't know that much about the way this PCM works but I would think you want to raise those thresholds.